http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh Comments on 'turn the central heating up to full for 24 hours every time Plane Stupid stop working class people going on holiday' en-gb team@pledgebank.com 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 2 hourly http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2990483 Thanks for backing me up Jon. Kiera was making so little sense that I gave up any attempt at serious debate. Her childish and egotistical parting shot only served to confirm that I had made the right decision. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2990445 It isn't just a class issue, as the pledger claims - some 'working-class' people, like me, are choosing not to fly, & supporting Plane Stupid against the Gov't-backed proliferation of air traffic - all 'classes' will be affected by pollution & climate change. It's nicer by SailRail anyway! Check out Toxic Cabin Events, folks. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2990428 Kiera, you can go on holiday 2 or 3 times a year and you consider yourself working class? Come off it! http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2990245 I tend to agree with Ian Gregory here. (For clarification, I don't know him, but it is frustrating to see his consistently reasonable dialogue with Kiera met with responses that border on the abusive). Supporting working class people who want cheap holidays whilst condemning the working class baggage handlers as "robbers" is inconsistent, and perhaps demonstrates that the trumpeted concern for the working class is not entirely genuine. Also, Keira, your reverse class discrimination is nothing to be proud of - should you "despise" someone for being born on the right side of the tracks? No, of course not, for the main reason that people do not choose the circumstances in which they are born into. Calling this kind of sneering "class consciousness" is just disingenuous, and it is irrelevant to the main issue of climate change. I think Ian rightly dropped out of the argument because his points were not being answered. To me, it sounds rather like you oppose Plane Stupid because you hate the class of people within it. I don't think that is very productive. I have no idea whether they are all privileged types, but even if this is the case, should working class environmentalists not support decent attempts to slow climate change across class boundaries? That would be a much better situation than Tarquins, Arabellas and Tamsins not caring about the world, and jetting around in a plane every other week on their trust funds instead - or would you hate them for that as well? http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2988459 Whatever you may think of the people at Plane Stupid, even if you think they are VERY stupid (and i don't, by the way,) pledging to "turn the central heating up to full for 24 hours" is way superior - on any scale of stupidity. Especially in this heatwave! It's good old self-harm - and on many different levels. Why not burn some cash too, overpay the gas bill, and cut down some rainforest - all to make your point?? If you are so much better and wiser than Plane Stupid, (and you may be) why not do what we could be doing - or at least come up with something less, er, Stupid? http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2988458 I sent a comment. Where is it? http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2937861 I won then. Good. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2936400 Hey Kiera, this has been a frustrating argument and I am going to have to let it drop. I only commented because I have been a fan of Johnny's blog for a few years and he has promoted a lot of the stuff I have been involved with. I don't have anything to do with Plane Stupid and their tactics are certainly debatable, but some of them are also involved with stuff Johnny supports and some of them are probably just as working class as he is. This pledge itself is clearly silly, so I shouldn't have taken it so seriously. I enjoy reading Johnny's blog, and I agree with most of what he says (including of course his scathing criticism of Ryanair). So sorry if I have offended you or wasted your time, I am sure you have more important things to be doing - I know I have. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2936162 Ian, nothing I've said is inconsistent with Johnny Void's comments. I don't like capitalism, I care about climate change, but I think baggage handlers are in general a bunch of worthless robbers and I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, I think stopping people flying for fun is as pointless a gesture as buying those expensive jute shopping bags at Sainsbury's, and I think posh hippie students playing wadicals are just plain stupid. You're the kind of lefty whose ideals are moved by guilt rather than class consciousness, which is why you're so bleedin' pious. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935971 So Kiera, you have signed a pledge which calls for a mass working class movement to address climate change and overthrow capitalism, but you like capitalism, don't care about climate change and put striking workers in the same category as Plane Stupid. Strange, or did you just not read the "More details" section? http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935857 Now I'm supposed not to take a plane to go on holiday two or three times a year because office cleaners aren't paid enough? And holidays, or even travelling up to Aiberdeen, are just a symptom of the malaise of capatalist socierty, where we aim to escape from our everyday lives? Away wi' ye! As far as baggage handlers are concerned - I have no sympathy with that gang of overpaid robbers which is why I never check in luggage. Costs less too. I put them in the same category as overprivileged students, often people called Tarquin and Arabella and Tamsin, from a public school background - the more I learn about Plain Stupid the more I despise them. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935748 You misread my cost comparison Kiera. I was commenting on the fact that Ryanair has sold return flights to Rome for a quid, whereas someone cleaning offices in London for minimum wage may be paying more than than that to get to work every day. The pledge creator (perhaps unlike you) admits that climate change is a problem, and presumably understands that it will not be solved as long as people continue to hurtle through the stratosphere in ever increasing numbers at near supersonic speeds. He just thinks that this problem can wait until after the overthrow of capitalism, or perhaps that in the post-capitalist world people will no longer feel the need to escape from their everyday lives by traveling such vast distances on a regular basis, or that autonomous workers' collectives will simply be incapable of building and maintaining jumbo jets. Who knows? What if your next flight is cancelled due to a baggage handlers' strike? Will you applaud them for their act of working class solidarity or condemn them for trying to mess up people's holidays? http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935648 No Borders aren't trying to mess up people's holidays and close airports, they are trying to stop people being deported. Completely different. Plain Stupid were trying to close down Aberdeen airport, and of course to show off to their student pals, and only stopped when they were told they were blocking a hospital mercy dash. Also completely different. Aberdeen is really quite far away from lots of places and people rely on air travel probably more than London trendies. If people choose to move close to an airport they must expect to hear planes flying about - we have an airport near where I live and it's older than most people living near it, who chose to move nearby. I'm not sure about the plight of the London office worker taking a train to Rome for brunch, but I'm sure it's a common problem. Perhaps you could set up a charity to raise funds for victims. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935605 Hello Kiera, have you been on many of the protests promoted by the pledge creator on his blog? Those organized by No Borders for example? I have, and so have people involved with Plane Stupid. People involved with No Borders have disrupted flights in successful attempts to prevent (or at least delay) deportations. Have you thought about why that is apparently OK when doing so to oppose airport expansion is not? Or about the "ordinary Brits" living near airports whose health will be sacrificed to satisfy BAA's greed? Or the fact that it may cost an office worker in London more to get to work on the train than it would to fly to Rome for brunch? I don't care whether you think I am a "trustafarian" or a voodoo priest - as long as you think. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935510 So ordinary Brits who want to go on a cheap holiday should be stopped by posh students because there are poor people in shacks at risk of typhoons. Ian, what is wrong with wanting a cheap holiday? And how dare you speak with such contempt of ordinary people for presuming to want to go on holiday to Ibiza? You sound like the kind of trustafarian twerp who thinks its a wizard wheeze to spoil ordinary working people's holidays, but will think nothing of going "travelling" for half a year... all bills paid for by mummy and daddy. http://www.pledgebank.com/stopplaneposh#comment_2935455 Whilst I can feel for the few "working class" people who missed their flight to Ibiza (or wherever they were jetting off to), I confess to having more sympathy for all those in the world who are too poor to even contemplate the idea of flying and are more worried about their tin shack being washed away in the next typhoon as sea levels rise. How would Mr Void propose challenging the huge unsustainable airport expansion plans that will put millions in the pockets of BAA execs? I know he doesn't oppose direct action in principle, so come on, let's see something productive rather than wasting time writing the sort of rubbish you would expect to see in The Sun. I nominate this as the silliest pledge ever.