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I’ll do it, but only if you’ll help

Pledge “rights”

"I will create a standing order of 5 pounds per month to support an organisation that will campaign for digital rights in the UK but only if 1,000 other people will do the same."

— Danny O'Brien (contact)

Deadline to sign up by: 25^th December 2005
1,038 people signed up (38 over target)

Country: United Kingdom

Comments on this pledge

Because there are so many comments, only the most recent 50 are shown on this page.

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• Thanks Suw, but whilst I - and I am sure most others - accept the principle that the meeting agreed someone needed to get this initiated the statements "whilst we do" raise concerns that it has already left the domain of those who founded the movement. "consulting with experts" suggests that those who are taking the decisions for the moment are not looking at the list to the left here (except, possibly, where they recognise the name) for the skills and capabilities already signed up, instead appearing to behave as a self-appointed cabal which will decide at some later date who will be given permission to get involved.
  
  It is not enough to say that the UK is to have an "Open" Rights Group without that Openness being seen to be done, and whilst the present signatories may be willing to accept a certain level of 'being led by the few' to start with, with the visible presence of the group now hitting the media it is important that it isn't just the 'usual suspects' being involved but the wider movement being used for more than just their pocletbooks.
  Alison Wheeler, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• We're all keen to get the members to do as much as possible. 1000 people all pulling together grassroots campaigns would be astonishingly fantastic. However, 1000 people discussing the Articles of Association, for example, probably doesn't work so well because it's a 20 page legal document that you can't even find copies of online (it's based on legislation from 1985, and nothing earlier than 1988 is online) which needs to be amended from various other government-supplied tables and such. For that, we need expert legal advice - so if anyone here is a lawyer with experience setting up a non-profit, please email me. (suw dot charman at gmail dot com)
  
  Regarding elections, starting an organisation with elections first simply isn't going to work because you need to know what positions you need to elect people for. You need to have a membership to do the electing, and for that you need a company limited by guarantee with a board and advisory council etc. for people to be members of and elected to. And someone needs to set that all up, but if no one can do anything until they are elected then nothing will get done. It's a bit of a catch-22 situation - you need a group to set things up before you can elect a group to set things up.
  
  This is why I have a hard time understanding this 'self-appointed' meme that is going round at the moment. What's the difference between 'self-appointed' and 'volunteer'? The reason I'm doing so much is because I volunteered to, plain and simple. My involvement in this whole thing goes back before OpenTech, when I was in San Francisco and had lunch with Danny and we started talking then about setting something like the EFF up in the UK. Having spent so much time thinking and talking about it, does anyone really expect me to then wash my hands of it after OpenTech and say 'well, I'm not going to help.'? I have the skills and experience to do certain things and those things I am doing.
  
  There is no 'cabal'. There's just a group of people trying to get something up and running which will outlast us. There is no 'cult of Danny' or 'Suw foundation' - we just happen to be the two people who've been speaking about this most in public because we are deeply enthusiastic about it.
  
  And to be honest, the people that have volunteered their time - people like James Cronin and Louise Ferguson and Stef Magdalinski and Cory Doctorow - have heaps of expertise, knowledge, contacts and experience and I feel delighted and honoured that they would choose to support us by giving us the benefit of all that they've learnt over the years. Without doubt we will be able to get this effectively and properly set up more easily with them helping than without them.
  
  I've also had a few people from here emailing me who have volunteered their help, which is wonderful, but so far the skills on offer aren't the ones we need in the short term. I don't know most of the people on the list, so I have to rely on them contacting me and explaining to me how they could help. I have publicly given my email address out and said that I would be delighted to talk to anyone who has skills to contribute, but, for example, IP law expertise is not required at the moment, but a pro bono business lawyer is. As it happens, we do have contacts that are being pursued at the moment to cover that angle, but again, if anyone wants to volunteer that skill, please email me.
  
  Many people who've signed this pledge did so because they trust Danny to do what's right. Nothing changes the fact that Danny, myself and all the others want to do things properly. So whilst we sort out the nitty gritty, can I please again ask for a bit of patience.
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Suw,
  
  I know there's no cabal. But it does seem like there is a group of people that knows what's going on, and then there's the rest of us who don't even know what the next step being taken is.
  
  I understand that you're running around sorting out the "Nitty Gritty" (and I'm grateful, I really am,) but most of us don't know what the "Nitty Gritty" is. For example, you mention details of the Articles of Association above. To be honest, this is the first time I've heard anything about this. I didn't even know people had been working on it. Maybe you mentioned it somewhere other than on this site or on the open rights blog, but I can't recall you telling us, the people who are pledging their support, directly.
  
  I don't think there's a cabal. I just think it's one of those situations where there's a group of people working very hard but everyone else not knowing what's going on and getting increasingly frustrated. May I just ask you to write a few words just to say what's going on and what happens next so we all don't feel like we're being kept in the dark (which I know is the exact opposite of your intent.)
  
  Let me once again also thank you - and all those other people helping - for all your hard work on this project.
  Mark Fowler, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Steve Coast,
  Can you stop trolling please?
  Your name isn't on the pledge list to the left, and in your last blog post you said 'Offers for me or others to help isn't the point. I don't really have the time.'
  
  No time to help, but plenty of time to hinder?
  Kevin Marks, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Yesterday morning (before the last few posts here), Suw and James Cronin and me had a planned meeting to look at legal stuff; to bring up to date the list of things that have been done - stuff like 'go to Guildhall Library in the City on Saturday and photocopy the entire Tables A and C and Amendments of the Companies (Tables A to F) Regulations 1985'; and 'investigate venues that will hold x number of people and will not charge money'; and to rehash a list of things that will need to be done (much longer).
  
  As part of that, Suw and me drafted list-style blog post that should be going up today or tomorrow I think (just checking to see if we've missed stuff, which we probably have).
  
  Essentially, there won't be a forum until someone sets up a forum; there won't be an organisation until someone sets up an organisation; it's all pretty Catch 22, as Suw says. Setting up a provisional blog on Suw's domain is a first step to address this. But until we have a formal organisation that has its own legal persona (which means trawling through the legal stuff), that has its own domain and hosting, its own governance, and its own channels of communication etc., we're still in the Catch 22.
  
  It has to be said that there was some 'talk' in the back end of July and in August, following OpenTech, but nothing much was done...so don't imagine there's some fait accompli going on here. There's not much 'fait' and there's certainly no 'accompli'.
  
  The context. First, there's waiting for the pledge to mature (maybe this will happen in the next couple of weeks, going on current figures). Second there's an expectation from many quarters (not least some of the UK mainstream media) that this 'new org' (which doesn't yet exist) should be responding to what's happening right now, or it's a waste of space. Third, there's a wish to learn from the mistakes or missteps that other organisations may have made. And fourth, there's an appreciation, from many years of experience of many people, that until you commit individuals in person, face-to-face, to do something real and tangible, and to deliver on it, generally nothing happens.
  
  So what we have is a *very interim group* of people, including myself, trying to plan, to put some things solid into place that will ensure we set up an organisation that protects its members from legal liability, that is accountable to members through a range of channels, that is not a 'guru organisation', that has a sound financial footing that will hopefully mean it won't die short-term (as most do)...
  
  Mostly this doesn't require 'issues' expertise. It's a question of getting the governance right. So when we're talking about 'experts' (see Alison Wheeler's post above), it's not issues experts we need, it's legal experts, it's corporate governance experts, it's fundraising experts, it's every kind of expert except the issues variety. We'd love people with this kind of expertise to step forward.
  
  While that's going on, some people are putting in time to try to deal with media queries, requiring an immediate response during the working day. We've basically thrown this at Suw, as she has much media experience, can deal with this 24/7, can write a press release (and an article) better than most, doesn't get phased when someone puts a microphone in front of her face to speak live on radio or TV (and having listened to myself on BBC live radio, tittering nervously, I appreciate the value of this quality), and can be guaranteed not to say something potentially slanderous or write something potentially libelous (or that would impact on relationships, operations etc.).
  
  Check out Suw's next post on the blog, that sumarises the 'big list', and please bear in mind that there's no 'accompli'. We too are people with jobs and lives and stuff...
  Louise Ferguson, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Kevin,
  I'm not trolling. I'm trying to prod people to create the member led org many of us thought it would be. I don't mean to hinder, note other people posting similar things here and elsewhere.
  SteveC, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I think there's definitely a place in the British rights landscape from a heavily-distributed, democratically elected grassroots-led organisation which consults closely with its membership on a very regular basis.
  
  But this isn't it. This is a way of supporting someone to answer press calls and redirect them to them other rights organisations, run small campaigns, and assist volunteer networks start up and connect to others.
  
  That's what you're paying a fiver for, and I'd hate to delude you that it would go on anything else.
  
  
  Running a membership-driven group is a lot of work, requires a lot of time and volunteer effort to co-operate closely with the membership, and has a really different scope and direction (often a continuously changing scope and direction). I haven't the foggiest idea nor any experience on how to start, run or maintain it. I bet there are people out there who do.
  
  If you're going to do that, *God* you would so be on the list of people ORG would be redirecting publicity towards. I'd pay a fiver to join an organisation like if I could afford it, and I would consider it cheap at twice the price.
  
  But it's not this fiver, and it's not this pledge.
  Danny O'Brien, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Mark, I think this is just the normal dichotomy of doing vs. telling. The blog was set up to help address that, but at the same time, I've been so busy trying to keep up with the doing that the telling has slipped a bit. I hope the latest post will help on that score.
  
  http://org.suw.org.uk/2005/09/the_mother...
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Suw said "because it's a 20 page legal document that you can't even find copies of online (it's based on legislation from 1985, and nothing earlier than 1988 is online)" alongside "it's a question of getting the governance right. So when we're talking about 'experts', it's not issues experts we need, it's legal experts, it's corporate governance experts, it's fundraising experts, it's every kind of expert except the issues variety.".
  
  But this is my point! I, for one, have set up a company from scratch before (and in my case re-typed the whole damn AofA and MofA in, tables and extras and all and more than one company) and I am sure others have too. People signing this pledge do, of course, take an active interest in the *issues* but also have a wide spread of other experience and skills rather than an issue-led tunnel vision about it all.
  
  If you don't say something like "does anyone have a copy of the default Memorandum of Association from table A in an editable format" or "does anyone have xxx experience" then we can't be mind-readers. You can't either, of course, but I'm sure quite a few of us on that list alongside have experience of running non-profits but without knowing that is what you were looking for ...
  Alison Wheeler, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Lots of slippage between me reading the list, and posting my last message, so sorry if I answered points that were seven messages back.
  
  Alison - thanks. I really hope we'll work out ways that everyone can help.
  Danny O'Brien, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• So here's the appeal based on yesterday's meeting:
  
  Statutory Instruments 1985
  
  Does anyone have "Companies Regulations (Tables A to F ) 1985", section Table A, as amended by sectio Table C, as amended by the section Companies Regulations 1985 Amendments? (published in the same volume of Stautory Instruments)...in *digital format* (that is, in boilerplate format, and without any amendments that might have been made by organisations that are using).
  
  This will save *significant* time.
  Louise Ferguson, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• This is interesting, but falls under the heading of "Yet Another Media-Oriented Self-Promoting Quango".
  
  What I'd like to see (and pay for) is a lobbying organisation. I can (and do) WriteToThem, but I can't go to other MPs, explain to them how I feel, etc... Thats where (I thought) you come in. I pay you to represent my views to the people who make laws in this country, not the Media!
  
  So, two points that I'd like answered by Suw or Danny (I apologise if these are already answered on Suw's blog, but I couldn't find mention of it):
  1) If your first two goals are media-oriented, how far down your "mother of all to-do lists" is lobbying?
  2) Will you retain a lawyer and try to challenge existing laws, or are you hoping for a Lessig-like character to just pop out of the woodwork?
  Matt, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• On the lobbying front, I think we've already been approached by at least one significant government unit. Just the beginning.
  
  And on the 'are you hoping for a Lessig-like charater to pop out of the woodwork' question, I decided back in 2000 (when I had to trawl the UK and US law schools for an amicus brief for a WIPO case, which later moved to the Virginia courts) that (a) there were no Lessig-like characters in the UK and (b)the UK academic environment was unable to produce any Lessig-like figures. In fact, in 2000, the UK couldn't even produce a Michael Geist (Canada) figure, or even near. A phone trawl of UK law departments supposedly specialising in new media law ('so what is WIPO?') was horribly dispiriting. Which almost made me give up.
  
  However, at the time, the US lawyers were so busy with MS etc major cases that even they didn't have time (and farmed things out to students in the relevant law schools).
  
  Which made me think...
  Louise Ferguson, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Lobbying is on the list of things to do, along with a lot of other things. As for when? I can't put a date on it.
  
  As for a lawyer, with the budget of £5000 a month, we won't have enough for a retainer. I'd love to do impact litigation and to defend key cases, but unless we find a far more significant source of funding (and yes, we are looking), then it's not going to happen soon.
  
  Let's get the scale of this organisation into perspective. When we start off, there'll be enough money for 1 - 1.5 staff, if that. We have to use that staff in the most cost-effective way possible, which means dealing with the media (who can reach a lot of people) and organising volunteers to campaign (which doesn't cost lots of money).
  
  There will be issues that people think we should deal with but which we won't have the budget or manpower to deal with. There will be laws passed which we don't like. There will hurdles for us to clamber over. We know this, and we'll do our best, and I'm sure there are lots of people who will help in that effort.
  
  We will not, however, be able to do what the EFF does right now and have a bunch of lawyers working for us because we are going to be an order of magnitude smaller. I realise there are lots of people here who are passionate about digital rights, and who may be disappointed that we're not going to do what they think we should be doing. And that's a shame. I wish we had the budget to be starting something bigger, and I wish we could cover every issue, and I wish we could promise to have a lawyer hired by next Thursday, but we don't and we can't.
  
  If we're not going to do what you want us to do - and you will know exactly what that is long before you actually give us any of your money - then the answer is simple. Don't donate.
  
  You know that saying, from every acorn an oak will grow? Well, we're pre-acorn stage now. If you want an oak, give us your support, but more than that, give us the time to grow.
  
  If you want an elm, please feel free to go plant one yourself.
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• On Steve Coast's various posts here:
  
  Yesterday morning, I emailed Steve a detailed list of what's happening (as per Suw Charman's post to her blog, on org.suw.org.uk) and got back from him what he described as a "generic response" (his words) because he "doesn't have the time" to respond to me (his words). He mentions the 'Peoples (sic) Front of Judea'.
  
  Steve has also said he does not want to respond to Suw (for the same reasons, apparently).
  
  Weel I think we've all seen Life of Brian many times and we all know what the lessons are there...
  Louise Ferguson, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Louise,
  
  ad-hominem.
  
  All the best
  SteveC, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Steve: Pot, kettle.
  
  Can people try to keep comments here at least constructive? I understand there are things people aren't happy with but, surely, it's utterly pointless just to gripe unless you're gonna do so whilst pointing out specifically what you think is wrong and work with the people who are actually taking up their time doing it to make those things right.
  
  As Kevin Marks implied, not having the time to help is fair enough; having the time to hinder, however, is worse than unhelpful. It takes up people's time that could more usefully be spent actually doing stuff without actually having any useful contribution.
  Owen Blacker, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Firstly, I don't see any public ad-hominem argument on either side of this debate, nor any trolling. What goes on by private mail was, of course, one of my gripes from Thursday, and I think that those taking part in private discussions should try to keep them that way or not have them at all.
  
  Secondly, whilst I still have my reservations about where this is going, they mainly lie in a difference of opinion about when things should have started moving in relation to when the pledge will be met. I would have been slower, but so what? Danny has addressed those concerns of mine, and reading back over the initial comments to this pledge it's easy to see why people needed to get things moving before the pledge was met.
  
  Thirdly, Steve has (in this case rightly, I think) raised the issue of ORG being a member-led organisation or not. For most people, this means elections of some kind. I think I side with the current volunteers in that I don't see how an organisation can be formed with strong foundations and simultaneously be elected from the start - someone has to take the initiative. That said, in the coming days/weeks some indication of how long those involved expect things to take, and how/where they expect others to get involved will be extremely welcome. (Granted, putting a time-table on volunteer projects is extremely difficult).
  
  Here's hoping that the foundations are being laid for ORG to be the UK EFF-style organisation we were all talking about, and that its current (modest but focused) aims are met as soon and as effectively possible. I certainly don't want to see all this effort go to waste, even if it takes a while for everyone to get the organisation they want.
  Tom Carden, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• What do you mean by all this digital rights stuff? Are you sure it doesn't boil down to you just wanting to be able to download music for free?
  Tony, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Dear Tony,
  
  It doesn't boil down to downloading music for free.
  
  In the context of music downloads, it could boil down to the ability to download and play any music at all.
  
  Not all music requires payment. Be it a download from the BBC, a demo track from an upcoming band wanting to raise their profile, or you wanting to listen to your colleague's kid's school concert.
  
  It's about protecting those right as much as, and balanced with, the others protecting their right to charge you to download the latest Britney Spears album.
  Sam Smith, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Digital rights isn't just about what you can buy, use or download its also about the rights that you have to your own intellectual property and its use electronically.
  
  For instance, if you're a band that has a recording contract dated before any electronic distribution then it is likely that the owner of that distribution contract will claim that it covers electronic distribution without any change.
  
  If you're a blogger and you get misquoted and libelled by someone in another legal jurisdiction then right now you have to sue in that jurisdiction which isn't going to happen.
  
  Digital Rights is going to require agreed International Laws that countries adopt if its to mean anything at all. Digital Rights in the United Kingdom will mean nothing if they're traduced in another country.
  Simon Lucy, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• For those who wish to help out, I could do with a hand with some research. Details on the blog:
  
  http://org.suw.org.uk/2005/09/mapping_th...
  
  Cheers.
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Are you sure we need a new organisation?
  
  Why not just support the existing
  
  FIPR -
  Foundation for Information Policy Research
  
  see:
  http://www.fipr.org/
  Ron, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• ORGnews Issue 1, containing:
  
  o Boring Administrivia
  o URGENT DATA RETENTION ACTION NEEDED BY THURSDAY 2005-09-22
  o Free Culture UK - Grassroots Action for The Public Domain
  o Open GeoData Campaign Gets a Monkey
  
  Now online at:
  http://org.suw.org.uk/2005/09/orgnews_is...
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Ron - FIPR are doing some great work (eg on medical records privacy) but as far as I can see they are focussed on doing the actual policy research (as the name suggests). I don't see them in the media very much.
  Matt Freestone, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I've read all the comments with interest - but can I speak up for what may well be a significant minority of people who have signed up - who are basically happy with the way things are being done, appreciate all the work involved, and would just like to know where to send the bally cheque...
  
  Nick May, Fukuoka, Japan
  nick may, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• It's a bit of a drawn out process, but we do hope to have a bank account soon and then shall be only too delighted to receive cheques, bally or otherwise. ;-)
  Suw Charman, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Their website is now up at
  http://www.openrightsgroup.org/
  Sam, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• URGENT
  
  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/15/...
  
  Is action going to be taken by this pledge against this. If so proposals before 21st. There is no eff in the uk to represent the onlines communities concearns
  Neil Townsend, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I have contacted the All Party Internet Group, APIG, who are running the DRM inquiry and we are looking into what we can do. Keep an eye on the blog.
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Hello Mr O'Brian, I really do not understand what your pledge stands for.
  
  "I will create a standing order of 5 pounds per month to support an organisation that will campaign for digital rights in the UK but only if 1,000 other people will too."
  
  — Danny O'Brien
  
  
  Do you mean that you'll support an organisation which pushes for digital rights to big business and other unelected NGO groups under the flag of DRM, DMCA plus the type of thing Mr Clarke (UK HO)is silently pushing for; or do you represent an idea to control the wishlist such groupings have been requesting, in some cases gaining.
  
  Please could you clarify.
  Benjamin, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Benjamin, ORG will campaign for individual civil liberties in the digital domain, and against the legislative power grabs by both government, business cartels and so on.
  Have a read of the http://openrightsgroup.org site for the current issues, and go along to the event on Tuesday to speak out.
  Kevin Marks, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• someone is currently planning to sue me for a comment made about them on my community blog website. I need help. can anyone recommend a source? thanks, opaz
  opaz, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• www.emint.org is the association of community professionals so start there.
  Ben Thompson, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• thanks ben
  opaz, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• There is plenty of action internationally, and no need to reinvent the wheel on a lot of this. Consolidation and strategic direction for the UK would be two cost-effective short-term goals. Create or join local and international networks with the pledge goals would also be relatively cheap and form a good basis for a series of direct actions. 3 strands - partnerships, monitoring, pro-active mobilisation?
  Ben McGarry, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• 1002! Huzzah! Congrats to everyone involved.
  Adam, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Ben - see www.openrightsgroup.org for a bit more information about what we're doing. We're not trying to replicate what anyone else is doing, so you won't find us suddenly starting a 'no to id cards' campaign, unless it was to be in conjunction with and at the behest of No2ID. We do, however, help other organisations get press coverage, and so far have done so for Privacy International, EDRi, and Digital Rights Ireland. And we haven't even started properly yet!
  
  Thank you to everyone who has pledged. Today is our first ever ORG event, which I look forward to seeing some of you at. And very, very soon we will be sending you details about how to become a Founding 1000 ORG Member.
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• On the various "splitters" comments, I'm from UKCDR, and I support ORG and this pledge. To explain why, I wrote a long blog post: http://flatline.org.uk/archives/000022.h...
  Peter Clay, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Cheers and congratulations from those of us organising what will become the UK Wikimedia organisation! Now tell me where to send my money ...
  David Gerard, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Congratulations, well done, and good luck with today's event.
  
  It's very nice indeed to see this getting off the ground.
  SW, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Just saw Charles' comment about paying 10 years in advance and thought it sounded expensive. Calculated it... less than the cost of a desktop PC for ten whole years of donations!
  
  For hiring a 2-person full-time team, this really is very good value.
  Oliver White, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Yes, congratulations to everyone for making ORG a reality.
  
  Have the standing order details been sent out yet? If not, fine, but I wouldn't want to think ORG was waiting for money and its account number had fallen into my ISP's spam filter.
  Markus Laker, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• We are just finishing up a site for you to join and pay your subs online. We'll email everyone and leave a note here & on the ORG blog when it is ready. Should be very soon though.
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Announcing version 1 of the supporter signup system and database!
  
  Whether you pledged to support this project or whether you didn't. We’ve now shaken our internal systems into a state where they might not be pretty, but they should work, and you can now follow through on your promise and support the project financially via paypal, standing order or cheque.
  
  https://secure.openrightsgroup.org/suppo...
  
  Thank you all very much for helping us get this far. We now have much much more to do.
  
  Any questions, queries, bug reports or comments to supporters@openrightsgroup.org please.
  
  J.
  x
  James Cronin, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• We also have the ORG wiki:
  
  http://www.openrightsgroup.org/orgwiki/
  
  And the ORG discussion list:
  
  http://list.openrightsgroup.org/mailman/...
  
  (Note, the discussion list pages have gone a bit strange and show an error when you sign up at the moment. Don't worry - the sign up will have been successful and you'll be able to post to and receive posts from the list, it's just the display of the admin pages that's currently got a problem. Our web hosts are looking into it though.)
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Note: Mailman now fixed. :D
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• The second Open Rights Group networking evening will be held 6-9pm, Tues 7 Feb 06, at 01Zero-One Hopkins Street (corner of Peter Street), Soho, London. Cory Doctorow will be speaking on the European Broadcast Flag, and there will be drinks and nibbles. The event is free, and you can read more about it and sign up on the wiki:
  
  http://www.openrightsgroup.org/orgwiki/i...
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Digital Rights?
  We must rush to get them !
  Yvonne, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• The next ORG Copyfighters Drunken Brunch and Talking Shop will be on 16 July, at the Mason's Arms, Marble Arch. Full details on the blog:
  
  http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2006/07/1...
  Suw Charman, 2 years ago. Abusive? Report it!