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I’ll do it, but only if you’ll help

Pledge “resist”

"I will actively support those people who, on behalf of all of us*, refuse to register for an ID card, and I pledge to pay at least £20 into a fighting fund for them but only if 50,000 other people will do the same."

— Franky Ma, London mother (contact)

Deadline to sign up by: 31^st March 2006
1,479 people signed up, 48521 more were needed

Country: United Kingdom

More details
"As the mother of a young child I can't risk her rights with mine by contesting ID cards directly, but I want to do everything I can to make sure she grows up in a free country." - Franky

*Many people, including Franky, have told NO2ID that they really want to refuse to register but they feel that their professional or family responsibilities mean they cannot personally contest registration--which could stop them travelling, working, and exercising many other civil rights.

The government's so-called 'voluntary' phase is a lie. Linking your passport to the National Identity Register and ID card WITH NO OPT-OUT is coercion, not choice. It may, in fact, prove to be a violation of human rights conventions.

NO2ID has already found over 10,000 people willing to test this--and the government's apparent intent to starve out the non-compliant. They will need your support.

NO2ID continues to campaign against the introduction of ID cards and the National Identity Register on all fronts, for more information on what you can do NOW, please visit www.no2id.net

Comments on this pledge

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• EDMUND:
  
  Ben has (in my view) very intelligently dealt with most of your points, so I'll stick with just this one:-
  
  "All the I.D. CARD IS NEEDED FOR IS TO ESTABLISH WHO YOU ARE.Quick and easy process of elimination.."
  
  Well this is the polar opposite of what you have argued for previously, but fair enough - if you are now saying that there are no potential benefits to the proposed scheme other than as a convenient and universal method of proving identity (and age, perhaps), then I suppose I agree with you. However, if this is the only aim (and certainly it is the only aim which has any chance of success), then it is simply not important enough to justify the vast costs involved. If the proposal was to issue everyone with a photocard confirming their name and age (costing a few pence per card, of course, and not £93), but not linked to any central database, then I personally would not oppose it. I would consider it quite pointless, but nonetheless it would not be serious enough to warrant opposition. Sure, some forgeries of the cards would be made, but their intended purpose would not be important enough for this to present a significant problem for the country.
  
  The *actual* proposals are not like this at all. If the only legitimate aim of the cards is to prove identity, then 3/4 at least of the data to be stored in the NIR would be utterly useless, as would be the vast cost of the whole scheme. So if none of the other stated aims succeed (anti-terrorism: useless. Anti-fraud: the scheme is more expensive than expected gains. etc...), then all the predicted costs will be entirely wasted.
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I do wonder when reading some of Edmunds comments, whether the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' has any meaning for him at all.
  Yes there are people in our society who commit terrible acts who must be identified and dealt with, but is it really necessary for every citizen of the country to effectively live in an open-air prison to achieve this end?
  We are human beings who are supposed to be entitled to inalienable rights, which have only recently been enshrined in European law, and yet the simple right to exist, without requiring a 'license' is already under threat.
  For all sorts of civil liberty implications, the Identity Card scheme is a bad one, but if these arguments fail to reach you, the sheer bloody-mindedness of this government, in its determination to squander billions of our money on a futile project should make you protest.
  Its YOUR money they're wasting, wouldn't you rather either have the money in your pocket, or better schools, hospitals, even more police?
  
  I used to feel a smug superiority when I heard about other countries whose citizens, (inmates?), had to carry identity papers with them at all times.
  
  Alas, 'Britons never, never, never, shall be slaves', may cease to have any relevance in Tony's new world order.
  Jim Lewis, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• If this government can't implement a national gun register after so many years why does ANYONE think that they will manage a national identity register?
  Sam Liddicott, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Jim Lewis: very good points. The thing that EDMUND keeps coming back to, and which I understand least, is clear from this extract (from a comment on 2nd March):
  
  "Can you see no benefits in an I.D.card?
  Have you any alternative."
  
  The underpinning argument here (and it's quite a common one) seems to be that it is better to be seen to be doing *something*, whether or not it has any hope of success, than to do nothing at all. I disagree: pointless action is still pointless, whether or not there are better alternatives available. Here, however, there clearly *is* a better alternative: better funding - and better organisation - of public services and the police.
  
  I think it's pretty well established now that the ID scheme, even if it worked perfectly, cannot possibly achieve any of its stated aims: it cannot impact on terrorism, it cannot make any significant contribution to fighting crime, and it cannot stop the vast majority of benefit or identity fraud (and will itself cost more than the small proportion it might prevent). It cannot even reliably prove identity, in fact, because the cost of the biometric readers prevents their widespread use. This is why reiterating the mere existence of problems in our society, serious though they are, cannot be an effective argument. If ID cards can *make no difference* to any of these things, then wasting money on implementing them is criminal.
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Excuse me mr convicted mugger would you like an I.D. card?
  and you mr convicted pedophile?
  what about you mr football hooligan?
  Im sure you would mr convicted rapist
  now you have served your term the gas company would like to give you access to granny at home alone.
  Here is your pass mr career thief collect whatever hospital equipment you like,I know you only started on monday with that cleaning company.
  Now park your new B.M.W.over there next to those school children mr drug dealer,I know you are very busy but would you like an I.D.CARD....
  WITH YOUR PAST CONVICTIONS AT THE NIR
  DATA BASE...VOLUNTARY. NO SIR.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Is Edmund serious? I mean "convicted" being the operative word in his little scenario, already on record.
  
  Give a forced/voluntary ID card to him and you have duplicate information about him since he is already on record, don't give him an ID card and the information still remains, since he has criminal convictions.
  
  What exactly is your point? Saying that "if we are to make cards voluntary, then convicted criminals definatley wont take them" (im paraphrasing). Well so what? We already know the cards wont solve anything that current criminal records systems dont do already, only bring in a clumbsy system with untested technology that the governments would spill their coffee on :P
  Not completely certain on what you are trying to convey, Edmund.
  Chris Davenport, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• O.K. CHRIS
  I KNOW HE IS A CONVICTED CRIMINAL
  YOU KNOW HE IS A CONVICTED CRIMINAL
  HE KNOWS HE IS A CONVICTED CRIMINAL
  BUT HOW DO THE POLICE KNOW IF HE ONLY HAS A BUS PASS ON HIM..
  HE CERTAINLY WOULD NOT GIVE HIS TRUE NAME AND ADDRESS IF HE IS DEALING DRUGS TO THE CHILDREN OUTSIDE SCHOOL GATES.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• EDMUND...
  
  No, but the fact that 'he' is caught dealing drugs to children might be enough to have him arrested on the spot, don't you think? What difference would it make whether he carried an ID card at the time? (And this, again, is also presuming that ID cards can't be faked well enough for the purpose of evading spot checks - which is highly doubtful, not least because police are hardly likely to carry biometric scanners with them!)
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Spare me your capital rants when you have nothing to substantiate the theories you have spat on this board, especaially when you dont explain exactly what you are getting at.
  You said convicted anyway .. that means they are on record with the necesary finger prints, profile photo and description on database.
  
  The police know - they've done it this way for many years, and they know. Surveillance is a major operation and you know they don't take it lightly. Don't forget, they get people to follow known felons, they have CCTV to track known 'haunts' and a personal ID card has never been a neccesity to aid catching the perps, rendering the ID card superficial and making anyone law abiding who refuses it look like a criminal by that logic.
  Chris Davenport, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Caught dealing drugs no Nic.
  I said hanging about the school
  with intent.These guys dont get caught that easily.
  1st June..........2013
  Excuse me sir it is 2am on a council estate in tooting and we noticed you have met several people in the last hour. May I please see your I.D.CARD..
  Mr smith you live in Birmingham.You drive a new £36,000 B.M.W.
  You claim social security.
  You have 3 convictions for drug dealing
  What are you doing in Tooting at 2am?
  Please step this way sir.
  The people of the inner cities are fed up with Drug dealing.The police need all the help possible.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• CAPITAL RANTS ?
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• March 15, 2006
  
  RFID VULNERABLE TO VIRUS ATTACKS COULD WREAK HAVOC
  
  Wake up and Put a Hold on Reckless Deployment, Say Privacy Activists
  
  Privacy and civil liberties advocates have long been opposed to the use
  of RFID technology on consumer items and government documents because it
  can be used to track people without their knowledge or consent. But now
  security researchers are warning RFID systems are vulnerable to viruses
  that could wreak havoc on databases around the world and potentially
  facilitate a terrorist attack.
  
  Melanie Rieback, a Ph.D.student at the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam,
  gave a live demonstration of how a hacker could deploy a single rogue
  RFID tag and infect associated databases at the Fourth Annual IEEE
  Conference on Pervasive Computing and Communications held in Pisa,
  Italy, March 15.
  
  "Let's hope this puts the breaks on the irrational exuberance of
  Wal-Mart, Procter & Gamble, the Department of Homeland Security, and
  everyone else hell bent on tracking everything and everyone with this
  technology," say privacy advocates Katherine Albrecht and Liz McIntyre,
  co-authors of "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to
  Track Your Every Move with RFID."
  
  Radio Frequency IDentification (RFID) is a controversial technology that
  uses tiny microchips to track items from a distance. These RFID
  microchips have earned the nickname "spychips" because each contains a
  unique identification number, like a Social Security number for things,
  that can be read silently and invisibly by radio waves. Security experts
  have theorized that RFID would be targeted by hackers, but until now,
  most considered the limited memory on the tags insufficient to deliver
  such attacks.
  
  Rieback backs up her demonstration with details about exactly how a
  virus could propagate in RFID systems in a paper aptly titled "Is Your
  Cat Infected with a Computer Virus?" The paper opens with a scenario in
  which a vet's database seems to be erasing data from pet tags and
  finally freezes, displaying the message "All your pet are belong to us."
  (This is a nod to the Internet joke "All your base are belong to us.")
  
  This damage could start with one attacker writing malicious code onto
  his cat's microchip and exposing it to the vet's system, she claims. But
  that's just the start. Her university's press release about the
  discovery points out how such malicious code could infect retail
  databases and even RFID-based airport baggage systems, leading to more
  serious consequences, like a terrorist debilitating a baggage database
  in order to slip in a lethal suitcase:
  
  "A malicious individual could put an infected RFID tag on his suitcase
  (or someone else's suitcase). The bag will be scanned when approaching a
  Y-junction, to determine which direction it should go. However the mere
  act of scanning could infect the airport's baggage database, and as a
  result, all bags checked in after could receive infected baggage labels.
  As these bags move to other airports, they would be rescanned -- and
  within 24 hours, hundreds of airports could be infected worldwide. A
  smuggler or terrorist using this technique could hide baggage from
  airline and government officials."
  
  The university researchers recommend that developers incorporate
  countermeasures to "help reduce the threat of RFID viruses." They point
  out that these measures "take time, people, and money to implement" and
  urge RFID developers to take action before their software is widely
  deployed.
  
  "We've long contended that RFID will put all of us at risk," says
  McIntyre. "This is a wake-up call to RFID proponents who are recklessly
  rushing the technology into the marketplace before the serious societal
  consequences of tracking everyday objects and people with this
  technology can be fully explored."
  
  -----
  ABOUT THE BOOK «SPYCHIPS»
  
  "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to Track your
  Every Move with RFID" (Nelson Current) was released in October 2005.
  Already in its fifth printing, "Spychips" is the winner of the Lysander
  Spooner Award for Advancing the Literature of Liberty and has received
  wide critical acclaim. Authored by Harvard doctoral researcher Katherine
  Albrecht and former bank examiner Liz McIntyre, the book is meticulously
  researched, drawing on patent documents, corporate source materials,
  conference proceedings, and firsthand interviews to paint a convincing
  -- and frightening -- picture of the threat posed by RFID.
  
  Despite its hundreds of footnotes and academic-level accuracy, the book
  remains lively and readable according to critics, who have called it a
  "techno-thriller" and "a masterpiece of technocriticism."
  
  "The Spychips Threat: Why Christians Should Resist RFID and Electronic
  Surveillance" (Nelson Current, January 31, 2006) is a paperback version
  of the original book that addresses Christian concerns associated with
  the technology.
  
  FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:
  
  Katherine Albrecht (kma@spychips.com) 877-287-5854
  or
  Liz McIntyre (liz@spychips.com) 877-287-5854
  
  CASPIAN Consumer Privacy
  www.spychips.com // www.nocards.org
  
  Maria
  http://theresistancemanifesto.com/index....
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• NO2ID: gold standard to bog standard
  
  Politics.co.uk | March 16 2006
  
  Civil liberty and privacy campaigners this morning ridiculed the Home Office’s ‘bad news day’ announcement that ID cards will use a PIN number rather than biometrics for many transactions.
  
  Phil Booth, NO2ID’s National Coordinator, said:
  
  “So the Home Office’s ‘gold standard’ of identity is to be little more than a bog standard chip and PIN card. Identity theft will become as easy as a glance over your shoulder.
  
  “After all its overblown claims about the infallibility of biometrics and how highly secure its ID system will be, it turns out our identities are to be protected by nothing more than a four digit PIN. The Home Office may as well give away all our personal data to organised criminals and fraudsters, who will always target the weakest point in a system.
  
  “The Government lied about ID cards being voluntary, now it turns out they’ve been lying about making them secure. They’ll fob the public off with anything just so long as they get to build their Big Brother database.”
  
  http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/mar...
  
  Maria
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• ID cards 'could use Pin numbers'
  
  DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press | March 16 2006
  
  New national Identity Cards could come with Pin numbers to check holders' identities, the Home Office says.
  
  Minister Andy Burnham said Pins could be used as an "intermediate" check.
  
  Anti-ID card campaigners say plans to use Pins show the cost of checking identities by fingerprints or iris scans would "bankrupt" the project.
  
  Meanwhile, the Identity Cards Bill is due to return to the House of Commons after suffering a third defeat in the House of Lords.
  
  It had previously been thought that banks, government departments and other businesses would use biometrics - including fingerprint, iris and face scans - to verify identities.
  
  Cost issues
  
  "A Pin number would be a new intermediate way of checking a card was authentic," Mr Burnham said.
  
  "The verification services that could be offered would be applied appropriately according to the business process that was involved," he said.
  
  That could range from a visual check to use of a Pin number to, in the case of "high-value transactions", biometric verification, he added.
  
  Mr Burnham conceded that the Pin number was "partly" being proposed because of the cost of biometric readers.
  
  The reality is that the only scheme they have a practical hope of pulling off is a bog-standard smartcard with a PIN number
  
  NO2ID
  
  Phil Booth, of anti-ID card campaign group NO2ID, said the Pin number was "technology that criminals and thieves have already compromised".
  
  "The Home Office has publicised this whole scheme as being highly secure and based on the magic of biometrics," he said.
  
  "But the reality is that the only scheme they have a practical hope of pulling off is a bog-standard smartcard with a Pin number.
  
  "The network of biometric readers alone would bankrupt the project and that is why they need to rely on a Pin number."
  
  Shadow home secretary David Davis said the announcement was a "tacit admission" that the government was having "grave difficulties making the biometrics work".
  
  "They have gone from what they represented as a secure 'gold standard' to a makeshift substitute," he said.
  
  'Heavy handed'
  
  Liberal Democrat spokesman Nick Clegg questioned the need for both Pin numbers and biometrics.
  
  "In every other country which has ID cards it is sufficient just to show your card to verify your identity yet ministers here are already fantasising about the many additional controls which it can add to an ID card," he said.
  
  "The Government should not be surprised that no-one wants such a heavy-handed scheme imposed on them through compulsion by stealth."
  
  In the Lords on Wednesday, peers voted by a majority of 35 to keep the ID card scheme voluntary.
  
  The government wants to make it compulsory for applicants for new-style biometric passports to have their details entered on a national database.
  
  Ministers have threatened to use the Parliament Act to get the Bill through without Lords approval.
  
  http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/mar...
  
  Maria
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I am not a number. I am a free man! The struggle to resist ID cards is part of the wider struggle for the people of the Earth to live together in peace. To that end, all I can offer today is this inspiring quote. I hope it makes you all feel a little brighter:
  
  "A time comes when silence is betrayal. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world....
  "Some of us who have already begun to break the silence of the night have found that the calling to speak is often a vocation of agony, but we must speak. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision, but we must speak. For we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us....
  "We still have a choice today: nonviolent coexistence or violent coannihilation. We must move past indecision to action. If we do not act, we shall surely be dragged down the long, dark, and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight.
  "Now let us begin. Now let us rededicate ourselves in the long and bitter, but beautiful struggle for a new world...."
  Greg, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Press Release Source: Research and Markets
  
  Cumulatively about $90 Million Has Been Spent on Real Time Locating Systems to the Start of 2006 - New Research Forecasts Spending Trends to 2016
  Wednesday March 15
  
  
  DUBLIN, Ireland--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 15, 2006--Research and Markets (http://www.researchandmarkets.com/report...) has announced the addition of Real Time Locating Systems 2006-2016 to their offering.
  Real Time Locating Systems (RTLS) seek, continuously and in real-time, to determine the position of a person or object from a distance within a physical space. For example, a physical space can be an entire hospital, a care unit, or a patient's room. More precisely, RTLS concerns people or objects being located within a physical space, without having to move through a portal into or out of that space, and without having to bring an electronic interrogator to the person or object.
  
  In this context, real-time means the system checks the location and updates the position of the person or object on a frequent basis and the information it receives concerns the situation at that instant.
  
  "Real Time Locating Systems 2006-2016" looks at the following key topics:
  
  RTLS Technologies
  Choice of RFID Frequency for RTLS
  Indoor Positioning Systems
  Long Range and Outdoor RTLS
  Combined and Parasitic RTLS Technologies
  Privacy Issues
  Market Size and Forecasts
  Companies mentioned include:
  
  Alexandra Hospital/ Singapore National University Hospital
  Sovereign Tracking Systems US
  RF Code USA
  Mercy Hospital USA
  Tagtec Australia
  Felixstowe Dock and Rail Company vehicles UK
  BMW
  AeroScout USA
  RFTechnologies USA
  Trolley Scan South Africa
  Ekahau USA
  Nagoya Ekisaikai Hospital Japan
  Hynix Semiconductor Korea
  Palmetto Health USA
  AWAREA
  BioRfid Solutions
  Student Tracker (TM) Program for Absenteeism and Dropouts
  Verichip Corporation USA
  Axcess International Inc USA
  ActiveWave Inc USA
  Healthcare Pilot USA
  Holy Name Hospital USA
  Advocate Good Shepherd Hospital USA
  Merrimac Industries USA
  Borgess Medical Center USA
  Jackson Memorial Hospital USA
  Klinikum Saarbrucken Hospital Germany
  Legacy Salmon Creek Hospital USA
  Massachusetts General Hospital USA
  Presbyterian Hospital USA
  Changgen Memorial Hospital Taiwan
  Tung Yuan Hospital in Hsinchu, Taiwan
  Vanderbilt Children's Hospital, USA
  Ascom, Switzerland
  Washington Hospital Center, USA
  Werribee Mercy Hospital, Australia
  Wirral Hospital, UK
  Metrotown Mall security Canada
  WhereNet USA
  Broekman Group, The Netherlands
  AM General Corporation
  Volkswagen
  Ford Van Dyke
  Inco Mine
  Yanzhou Mining Group China
  Marion Correctional Treatment USA
  Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center USA
  Birmingham Heartlands and Solihull NHS Trust UK
  Bon Secours Health System, USA
  G2 Microsystems
  Versus Technology Inc USA
  Wherify USA
  Sygade/ Max ID, South Africa/ UK
  Savi Technology
  Dow Chemical
  For more information visit http://www.researchandmarkets.com/report...
  
  http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060315/200603150...
  
  Maria
  http://www.theresistancemanifesto.com/in...
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Christians call for boycott of VeriChip, the implantable microchip, calling it ‘the mark of the Beast’
  
  San Diego, CA – Christians across the country are calling for a boycott of the VeriChip implantable microchip, now becoming popular in the U.S., calling it “the mark of the Beast” as referred to in the Bible. The VeriChip is planned to rapidly replace credit and debit cards, as well as traditional forms of identification. Could Revelation 13:16-18 have been any more specific? "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
  
  In 2004, the Mexican Attorney General and 160 of his staff received the VeriChip, and in April 2005, Chief of Police in Bergen County New Jersey, Jack Schmidig, received the VeriChip, marking the first time in history a U.S. official received the implant. The door has now opened in the United States, and soon we’ll see commercials with celebrities saying how cool it is to ‘get chipped,’ and this must be stopped.
  
  Radio Frequency Identification Devices (RFIDs) have been being installed in American schools as student tracking devices, and the move to implant them has gained worldwide attention. Christians around the world have been voicing opposition to the use of such Orwellian devices since they were first implemented, and now an official nationwide boycott has been announced. “We are calling upon all people to stand up and refuse to accept this device.” Says Conner, author of The Resistance Manifesto. “We can’t allow this Beastly system to be forced upon us.” He concludes.
  
  The Resistance has gained world wide press with their allegations that the war on terror is being exploited and is taking away American liberties. The perpetuation of the fear of terrorism is exactly what is behind the campaigns for such devices as the VeriChip and other RFIDs.
  
  John Conner, author of The Resistance Manifesto, says, "We are simply a group of Christians who analyze all facets of infrastructure, ideology, and technology involved in the New World Order,” pointing out, “the invasion of RFIDs carry enormous threats to privacy and many other security concerns. These devices are not a cure-all to security as touted by their manufacturers and supporters."
  
  Conner with legions of others have been speaking at churches and Bible studies for years, bringing awareness to the Orwellian influences in America and emerging technology. "What much of secular America doesn't understand is many Christians take these things very seriously. Due to editorial and political censorship our voices are often stifled." He says.
  
  We refuse to be turned into pieces of inventory by human tracking devices. With the release of VeriChip, the Pandora's box of the mark of the Beast, and the world rapidly advancing towards a one world governed, cashless, privacyless world, it is time to stand together in these end days. The Resistance Manifesto is a shocking analysis of Satanic influences in America today. Included are Chapters on the Georgia Guidestons, a mysterious 25 year old occult monument, and examinations of the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, the Illuminati, and a detailed history of the VeriChip, RFIDs and the mark of the Beast.
  
  The Resistance Manifesto is available exclusively at www.TheResistanceManifesto.com
  
  Read the chapter on the mark of the Beast from The Resistance Manifesto
  
  Contact: John Conner, spokesperson
  Email John@TheResistanceManifesto.com
  Web: www.TheResistanceManifesto.com
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Thankyou John, it's nice for others to see the Americans taking an interest in the matter. And as I've said before, carrying an ID card of this nature is the next best thing to being implanted and living in a dog pound environment. The government would think it would be too pushy to ask all of us to take the chip, so why not have a handy tracking device that is compulsary to carry?
  
  You have to take your arm everywhere you go don't you? And they will demand we all take the card with us everywhere we go wont they (frequent ID checks will keep us in line), so there is no distinction between a card carrying this tech and the implant tech if they do stick to their original design brief.
  Chris Davenport, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I wish there was a thanks button on here so I could say thanks to Nic for making points so well and so concisely!! You capture all my feelings and phrase them perfectly!!
  melancholly, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Is EDMUND mad? He's on the arms against war pledge saying that he's forwarding e-mails from an Iraqi called Kamil, who strangely enough has a VERY SIMILAR OF WRITING MISSING WORDS AND EVERYTHING. Very suspicious.
  
  By the way Edmund, if you are caught for an offence the police will detain you in custody until your identity can be confirmed by the Police National Computer. If you lie about your identity you can be charged with deception and obstruct PC. A database state cannot and will not prevent crime; it will however facilitate crackdowns on dissent.
  
  Additionaly, why do you refer to criticism of the goverment as "blair-bashing?". This is about principles not personalities.
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Kamil is now convinced England is full of extremists.He said nothing against any of you,in fact he was very polite.
  He tried to explain the situation in Iraq to you.I think the police are more interested in you siml and your bunch of extremists.You are a rude little worm with nothing constructive to say but abuse.What a shame I thought pledgebank was a great place to debate.It does seem to be a meeting place for odd bod 1970 EXTREMISTS.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Hi Edmund,
  
  Regrettably I've reported your post as inflamatory and personally insulting. You are in a minority with your views here but it does not give you a right to make offtopic personal insults instead of pro-ID card arguments/banter. For me, you've lost your credibility and any chance to change my opinion on ID cards.
  Ben, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• RED ALERT - ALERTE ROUGE
  
  Sciences physiques et nanotechnologies
  
  PREMIER INVENTAIRE PUBLIC DES PRODUITS RELEVANT DES NANOTECHNOLOGIES
  
  IL EXISTE DEJA PLUS DE 200 PRODUITS NANOTECHNOLOGIQUES MANUFACTURES, COURANTS ET COMMERCIALISES !!! Une liste de produits à BOYCOTTER, bien entendu...
  
  Vic
  
  Browse Products | Advanced Search
  A Nanotechnology Consumer Products Inventory
  Home
  
  After more than twenty years of basic and applied research, nanotechnologies are gaining in commercial use. Nanoscale materials now are in electronic, cosmetics, automotive and medical products. But it has been difficult to find out how many "nano" consumer products are on the market and which merchandise could be called "nano."
  
  While not comprehensive, this inventory gives the public the best available look at the 200+ nanotechnology-based consumer products currently on the market. Prior to this inventory, the figure most often cited by the U.S. government was that approximately 80 consumer products containing nanomaterials were being sold.
  
  Please feel free to explore the inventory by browsing the products, or perform an advanced search.
  
  Further information about the inventory:
  Analysis
  
  Updates
  
  Background
  
  Nanotechnology 101
  
  ---------------------------------------
  DISCLAIMER: This inventory has been compiled by the Project on Emerging Nanotechnologies (the "Project") at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars (the "Center"), which is supported by a grant from The Pew Charitable Trusts ("Pew"). The material contained in this inventory is for informational purposes only. The Project has made this material available to stimulate discussion and comment about the emergence of nanotechnology in commerce. The Project has no formal association with any of the manufacturers, suppliers, or vendors (collectively "Manufacturers") of the products listed in this inventory. Reference to any product, process or service in this inventory does not reflect the position or policy of the Project, the Center or Pew, nor does inclusion of any product in this inventory constitute or imply endorsement or criticism of, or commentary on, such product, process or service, or of such product?s Manufacturer. Any statements, claims and views expressed by a Manufacturer or by any third-party contained in this inventory are solely those of the party making such statement or claim, or expressing such view, and are not attributable to the Project. The Project is not responsible for, and disclaims all liability for safety and testing of such product, as well as for any potential hazards that might result from the manufacture or use of such products. This inventory contains "hyperlinks" to other web sites that contain information created, published, maintained, or otherwise posted by Manufacturers, institutions or organizations independent the Project, and the copyright and privacy policies of such Manufacturers, institutions or organizations apply to that material. The Project does not endorse, approve, certify, or control these other web sites and does not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, efficacy, or timeliness of information located at such sites. The Project assumes no responsibility for consequences resulting from use of information in this inventory or obtained at linked sites. The Project is not responsible for, and expressly disclaims all liability for, damages of any kind arising out of use, reference to, reliance on, or performance of such information. All Manufacturer brand and product names are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective holder. Use of any trademark in this inventory is for identification purposes only, and is intended to be used only for the purpose of accurately describing the product to which the trademark applies.
  
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  http://www.nanotechproject.org/index.php...
  
  Maria
  http://theresistancemanifesto.com/module...
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• No Edmund, you did not think this was a great place to debate. You refused to read information posted to you or even follow a web link for further info, this is not the attitude of someone interested in honest debate.
  
  I hope you have fun with your imaginary friend Kamil.
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• So you want pledgebank for your propergander machine and any free speech will be crushed. sounds sinister..who are you people ?you seem to know each other..why dont you want I.D....Where is your next protest sim
  sinister..I want I.D.as soon as possible for everyone.We can then get you odd bods sorted out.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Uhhh, no Edmund, people tried to offer you counter arguments and information and you refused to read it.
  
  And talking about getting the "odd bods" sorted out, this is the best anti-ID cards argument I've found on the site. Congratulations ;)
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Oh and it's propaganda, not "propergander". Your spelling is about as good as "Kamil's". What a strange coincidence.
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Keep on siml.I am wondering if you are an extremist or are just very stupid.Every comment you post is one less signature.
  I am giving intelligent people a chance to defend their views.Next stupid comment from siml..
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Thankyou Edmund you really are brilliant comedy.
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• PROPAGANDA .Not a word 20 million normal everyday people would know how to spell.However if you are an extremist..Next stupid comment siml.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Yes Edmund I'm part of an extremist faction of spelling correctors.
  Sim1, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Sim1, I regretfully join you in reporting EDMUND's comment, above, as abusive.
  
  EDMUND, I'm sorry - but enough is enough. Opposing views are (and should be) more than welcome, but from the outset you have never been interested in actual debate. A debate is where each side actually *pays attention* to what the other says, always willing to reconsider their position if necessary. From the start, you have either ignored what others say to you, or even explicitly refused to read it! Now that's all fair enough - you were, after all, doing your own side of the argument more harm than good - but now you're even descending into personal abuse. I suspect I speak for the majority here when I say: please either change your style, or depart.
  
  (On a lighter note: melancholly, many thanks for your comment earlier!)
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I am sorry nic you are the one who has not answered the questions.You cannot give the suitable answers because there are none.You do not care about your fellow citizen.You do not care about the inner city crime.You do not care because you are worried about the police building a profile of you,and the rest of your lot.You are useing pledgebank to con people into thinking about i.d. theft when the hackers can get all they need from the system now.
  When Edmunds questions cannot be answered lets try to get rid of him.
  70 independent people think your a bunch of extremists who do not consider the protection of your fellow citizen a priority.Today I will start a petition which will include all of my comments and your replies.These will be sent to the House of Lords with the request that they consider the wishes of the majority of law abiding citizens in this country and
  vote for the peoples I.D.Bill.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• EDMUND: "Today I will start a petition which will include all of my comments and your replies.These will be sent to the House of Lords..."
  
  Fantastic idea! As long as you agree to include all of the comments on both sides, with no editing or omissions, then please do it, with my blessing.
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Dear all,
  
  EDMUND has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he is what regular web users would call a 'troll'.
  
  Given several opportunities to inform himself and engage in rational debate, he has refused. *Please* don't waste any more comment space on NO2ID's pledge posting replies to him.
  
  Trolls thrive on attention, so the only way to make a troll go away is to ignore it.
  
  Completely.
  
  As this pledge is still live and attracting signatories, I would ask that everyone simply ignore EDMUND'S posts. Report any offensive ones, by all means, but don't engage with EDMUND in any way.
  
  Thank you.
  
  P.S. EDMUND, this is not 'censorship' or about 'winning' or 'losing' arguments. You are doing the equivalent of scrawling graffiti on a pledge that you clearly have no intention of supporting, or engaging with in any meaningful fashion. This is my last communication with you and, I hope, the last response that you will get on this thread.
  Phil Booth, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Phil Booth: Fair point. Until recently, though, I have felt that the discussion EDMUND generated (whether a troll or not) was still valuable, because it threw up a lot of genuine, commonly held opinions about the ID scheme and allowed others to respond to them. These replies may not have been of benefit to EDMUND himself, but could still have been helpful to others reading this forum for information. You're quite right, though - enough is enough!
  Nic Shakeshaft, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Nic,
  
  I agree that, up to a point, rebutting EDMUND'S posts may have provided some useful information to others (and I thank those who did this) *but* the whole point of this page is for people to sign Franky's pledge. If people want information, they should go to the NO2ID website - http://www.no2id.net - or if they want to discuss the ID cards scheme and related issues, then use our forums - http://www.no2id.net/phpBB/index.php
  
  We have set up enough appropriate channels and mechanisms for discussion that we hope most people will be provided for.
  
  This is not a discussion board, its a pledge - and I'd ask that anyone reading this goes RIGHT NOW and asks (at least) 5 people that they know to sign the pledge. If you have any energy to expend on this at all, then that is what will be of most use to the campaign.
  
  Thanks again.
  Phil Booth, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• To all who want my ......sorry Phil Booths about..I better go underground..
  watch this space when hes asleep..
  Regards Edmund.new code name freespeechforall..p.s. dont just send your £20 without questions...
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I do not condone boycotting or ignoring Edmund if he has constructive posts or not. This pledge comment board was for everyone to give their 2 cents and opinions, and further debate should be on the forums I agree, as this board doesnt have enough room or scope (posts have better archives on dedicated forums too.)
  
  All opinions are welcome. Its ironic that these boards need your ID to be able to participate too (to be known to system), don't you think?
  Patterns in human social structures are indeed interesting.
  chris davenport, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Hi Chris,
  
  "their 2 cents and opinions" - Edmund was being derogatory and insulting with his posts calling all other members extremists - this is not an opinion on the topic in hand and so IMHO should not be qualified with an answer. IMHO a response is tantamount to somebody cursing you and then patting them on the back to thank them!
  
  Regarding the ID on this forum, I don't find this ironic at all. After all to particpate in wider society you need a bank account, a national insurance number etc, anonymous posting is not allowed due to the abuse that this would allow - it is to protect out little society (read the people who post here) rather than take away rights of a greater society, if it really bothered you you could have signed up with any number of email anonymisers - you have a choice.
  
  Personally I won't be making any more off topic remarks such as this, and as Phil mentioned this is not the correct forum, nor topic area, so I leave this with this thought (going from my possible mis reading facts/understanding) why is it that the house of commons (who supposedly represent us) have been helping the ID cards along with pro votes, and leave it to the house of lords to rebuff ID card proposals, e.g. the making of it compulsory?
  Ben, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Your local M.P. is in touch with the people on a daily basis.Your local M.P.
  represents the people.With all due respect my Lords we, the ordinary citizen, talk to our M.P.s with our concerns about crime,drugs,theft,muggings and how the police need the help of the I.D.card.
  We cannot walk the streets at night.
  If you live in a village in windsor maybe, but not in tooting.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• FREEDOMOFSPEECHFORPLEDGEBANK. Whats up with you lot anyway?
  I only called you extremists.
  Oh dear me look what Edmund called us.
  cut out his tongue...
  We cannot have our pledgebank open for debate.We just want money. so get out there and get some votes no questions asked.....This has been posted by a
  FREEDOMOFSPEECHFORPLEDGEBANK underground member..
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• If it really bothered me anyway, Ben, I wouldnt have posted. Im just pointing it out. I did say 'ironic', not 'insulting - so I dont find registering an ID as poor form.
  
  As for Edmunds opinions, which they were before flames started erupting, as mis-informed as they were I still tolerate them. The content of a response suggest whether we acknowledge or 'thank' somebody or not, not the fact that we respond itself :P
  Creating deliberate resistance to a poster is what fuels flames, instead you should consistently neutralise it.
  Chris Davenport, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Your Lordships. This is an appeal from the families on the front line of crime in Tooting bec London.
  Your Lordships.
  We the ordinary working class people look up to the House of Lords with great respect.You are the most responsible body of people in the land who we believe make the right decisions for the good of the majority of people in this free and democratic country. I dont know how often you visit the inner cities but we have a major problem,much greater than even the police realize.
  Drugs,muggings,rape,theft and murder. The old and vulnerable,our children and ourselves,after dark,are afraid to walk the streets.Parts of this great country are exposed to the rule of the criminals on a daily basis.Compulsory I.D.cards will help the police to tackle these growing problems .
  Drug dealers at our school gates.
  Pedophiles in our churches and schools
  Criminals obtaining jobs that enable them access to our homes through the utility companies.
  Teachers,who gain our trust and then sexually assault are 15 year old children must never teach again recorded on their I.D.CARDS. Underage drinkers on the street corners. Children drinking in pubs and clubs.
  Muggers who leave fingerprints on the faces of our beautiful children.
  YOUR LORDSHIPS.Crime is like cancer it spreads even in your shires drugs are taken in Boarding schools.
  CRIMINALS WILL NOT TAKE UP VOLUNTARY I.D.CARDS.In fact I dont who would.
  With great respect.
  yours sincerely The law abiding citizens of
  The inner cities.
  EDMUND, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• And the people who take care, why are they track like a criminel with all this biometric system, video, camera in home, civil guards, etc? And when peoples will receive this mark of the beast, goverment corporations will have perfect control on population. See this web site : http://www.wanttoknow.info/fredburksresi...
  
  The New World Order agenda is very dangerous. I hope you make a good research on that. By sure, they beging by using all the criminal to promote their vision but in reality this plan is a military program for the control of populations.http://www.nato-pa.int/archivedpub/comre.... Find this article in english. I hope you change your mind after this lecture.
  
  Maria
  http://theresistancemanifesto.com/index....
  
  Maria
  Maria, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Solidarity with the campaign.
  
  It is time not only for ID cards to be scrapped, and the money spent on useful services, but for Anthony Charles Lynton Blair to be convicted.
  
  He is a tyrant.
  
  http://blairwitch.typepad.com
  http://www.myspace.com/blairwitchimpeach...
  Matthew Cuffe, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I am worried about the 50,000 pledge it doesn't look as though we will make it. I am getting a mixed reaction at the moment. when people start talking about the id card some seem quite happy -- they even say just think no more crime, how wonderful.
  When I told them that the danish or dutch cards have alread been broken they don't believe me.
  they also have very little knowledge of what RFID means. they think they are being given an unbreakable library card. they don't realise it is a dog collar.
  
  I think there will be a revolution or civil war.
  nina, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• There was an old man called Clarke, who kept all the folk in the dark, to achieve enlightenment he removed their entitlement, and followed them around the park.
  He chuckled to himself one day as he threw all their rights away for when going to town if you don't move around you could be carted away.
  The Parliament should not have complied but spineless they sat down and cried, old Clarky had lied to the folks who'd not tried and all they could do was wait til he died.
  At last Cromwell Clarke expired and in the mud he lay there mired, but although he was gone his card lingered on.
  nina, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• I signed up for this pledge which was technically unsuccessful, but I would still like to donate to a defense fund. If a fund is created, please publicize it.
  Seth Schoen, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!
• Thanks, Seth :¬)
  
  With the passing of the Bill into law, we shall shortly be mailing all those who signed our 3 pledges (refuse, refuse2 & resist) with details of how to donate to the defence fund.
  
  Finding a friendly law firm who can administer it and hold monies in trust (without charge) has proven more difficult than we thought!
  
  We appreciate that many who signed the technically 'unsuccessful' pledges may still wish to donate - and we have had many mails from people saying they will refuse to register as well.
  
  Thank you for your continued support and patience.
  
  Phil Booth
  National Coordinator, NO2ID
  Phil Booth, 3 years ago. Abusive? Report it!