http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2 Comments on 'refuse to register for an ID card and will donate £10 to a legal defence fund' en-gb team@pledgebank.com hourly 2 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_15826 Thank you all for your support, sorry that the deadline has expired - lots more people are wanting to pledge since the Bill passed. We'll be providing another way for people to declare their refusal to register, soon. Now the ID cards Bill is and Act, we shall be mailing all those who signed our 3 pledges (refuse, refuse2 & resist) with details of how to donate to the defence fund. There is of course no obligation to pay up on an 'unsuccessful' pledge - but many have already told us that they will. Finding a friendly law firm who can administer it and hold monies in trust (without charge) has proven a little more difficult than we had hoped! Thank you for your patience. Phil Booth National Coordinator, NO2ID http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_15643 If the state has nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear. I feel somewhat bemused about the secret loans with ilicit payoff by Mr Blair while he assures me that I must come clean about everything. Of course the millionairs will still be able to hide their identity, their gifts and bribes. People who enter the country ilegaly to be exploited ilegaly will be in exactly the same situation as now - paperless and at the mercy of their corupt employers. All this does is bring us closer to a police state with civilians under close scrutiny. If civilians are the enemy then the state has something to fear. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_15313 If I had "Nothing to fear Nothing to hide", then I would post a website that tells everyone my Name, D.O.B., Address, Bank account details, PIN, where I work, when I work, where I go on hoiday, all the medical procedures I have undergone, my sexuality, all my partners, what websites I visit, where I go out drinking, the names of the people I associate with, my driving licence details, my personal alcohol licence details etc etc However, I do not want people to know all these things, I will not accept an ID card or Meta Database, which holds all of my personal information in one place and which once compromised, will give criminals all of these details. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_12582 Our corrupt friend Jake is spot on, the only people who will bow to the threat of a fine and a criminal record are tax paying, law abiding citizens. People who have reputations, jobs and families to protect, in other words people with something to lose. So if it's not going to prevent or help solve crime (can you really see the police coming around your house in lab overalls looking for DNA after you've been broken into), it's not going to stop benefit fraud and it certainly won't put a stop to all the undeserving individuals legitimately claiming benefits. It will not stop terrorism, the notion that a card will stop fanatics blowing up the public is preposterous. So perhaps we should be asking why Tony wants us to have one so badly. Maybe his beliefs (and they are just beliefs as he is unable to come up with a single credible argument for the need for ID cards) have transcend the insignificant issue of whether it is right or wrong to impose this affront to the electorate’s privacy and moved onto the seemingly unimportant but politically crucial issue of win or lose. Visit on-my-sleeve.com for a T shirt that tells George W that you know who the real bad guy is. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_12378 ROGER Wrote: "the fear of being caught is the biggest factor in crime prevention an ID cards would help crime detection no end therefore helping to reduce crime. simple arguement, simple maths, ok longterm solution, but I never said it would happen over night." If you think that ID cards are a deterent for people who are criminals and fear getting caught, think again. look at all the draconian measures that have been introduced on britain's roads over the last 20 years, yet 1 in 10 cars is still on the road illegally, technically speaking, mine included, but i am not afraid of being caught even by the new ANPR technolgoy because I know that there are that many people who are sick to death with paying out hand over fist that many millions are breaking the law. Because of this, I know that even if the system flags up my number plate, it cannot cope if I just say get stuffed, I am not paying the tax and I am not paying the fine, there are no prison places left because of all your rediculous draconian legislation so; what are you going to do about it? You see that even with photo driving licences, numerous changes to the V5 and speed cameras to name but a few, criminals like me just do not give a toss and carry on regardless. I don't want an ID card, but I am certainly not scared of them and they will not make me change my ways, why should they? If they start using facial recognition in the CCTV systems then the only thing that will happen is the sale of hoodies, hats and scarves will go through the roof. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_11199 I am 100% against ID cards and the identity register. Believe me when I say I actually feel horrified at the thought of them - No matter what happens I will refuse an ID card and will leave the UK for good if need be. I have the right to live a free life without being tracked, as every human should be able to and if this is what the UK of the 21st century is going to be like then I will pack my bags and leave. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10876 CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ILLUSTRIOUS ID. CARD CREATORS British international law professor Philippe Sands, author of “Lawless World,” reveals President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair secretly agreed in January 2003 to invade Iraq in mid-March 2003 regardless of the outcome of diplomatic efforts. New evidence has emerged that President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair agreed in January 2003 to attack Iraq regardless of whether diplomatic efforts succeeded. The revelation comes in a newly updated version of the book “Lawless World” by British international law professor Philippe Sands. According to the book, Blair offered Bush his full support of the war during a meeting at the White House in January 2003. Sands says his account is based on a summary of the meeting prepared by one of the participants. According to the book, Bush is recorded as saying that "the start date for the military campaign was now penciled in for 10 March. That was when the bombing would begin. The military timetable meant that an early resolution was needed." Bush also reportedly said the "diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning". In addition the book reveals President Bush told Blair that the United Stated was considering flying U2 spy planes disguised as United Nations planes over Iraq in an attempt to provoke Saddam Hussein. If Iraq fired on the planes, it would help justify a US led invasion. Philippe Sands, the author of 'Lawless World' is a professor of international law at University College London. http://www.democracynow.org http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10267 Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs' Consortium News | February 23, 2006 By Nat Parry Not that George W. Bush needs much encouragement, but Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration's domestic operations -- Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy. "The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements," Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6. "I stand by this president's ability, inherent to being commander in chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat. "Senator," a smiling Gonzales responded, "the president already said we'd be happy to listen to your ideas." Recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy. Top U.S. officials have cited the need to challenge news that undercuts Bush's actions as a key front in defeating the terrorists, who are aided by "news informers," in the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Detention centers Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said. Later, the New York Times reported that "KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space." Like most news stories on the KBR contract, the Times focused on concerns about Halliburton's reputation for bilking U.S. taxpayers by overcharging for sub-par services. "It's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," remarked Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. Less attention centered on the phrase "rapid development of new programs" and what kind of programs would require a major expansion of detention centers, each capable of holding 5,000 people. Jamie Zuieback, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, declined to elaborate on what these "new programs" might be. read full text: http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/fifth_column_bush_mysterious_new_programs.htm http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10257 Alan, The difference between these cards and the ones you carried as a member of the military is the National Identity Register. The NIR is the central database which, as well as linking to every other database with information on you, will log every single time your card is produced and checked. Such a system is wide open to abuse. It's a database that does away with the notion of "need to know" and may well lead to such things as insurance companies having access to your medical records without your knowledge or consent. You only have to look at the sorry track record of government IT contracts (CSA, air traffic control, passport office, NHS) to see where this is going to lead. Massive cost over-runs, major security holes and all the rest. As usual, the crooks will find a way round the system while the long-suffering taxpayer gets shafted. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10255 Andrew Jones: That was a very interesting post (although I can't say any of it surprises me...), and I can certainly see the relevance to the UK's NIR. However, could I suggest that this might have been better provided as a link to another page (with only excerpts here), rather than printed here in full-text? The narrow width of the column means that your post takes up nearly 14 pages, which makes it quite awkward to scroll up to previous posts! Thanks, and sorry for moaning! Very interesting post. Nic http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10252 Monday, February 27th, 2006 Total Information Awareness Lives On Inside the National Security Agency In 2003, lawmakers voted to shut down Total Information Awareness - a program that developed technologies to predict terrorist attacks by mining government databases and the personal records of people in the United States. Months earlier New York Times columnist William Safire had warned about the dangers of the program. In a column headlined "You Are A Suspect" Safire wrote: "If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you: "Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend -- all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as 'a virtual, centralized grand database.' "To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you -- passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance -- and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen. "This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks." Following public outcry, the program was halted primarily because of privacy concerns, but also because its main advocate was John Poindexter, known for his involvement with the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s. It now appears that the project "was stopped in name only" and that TIA is in fact continuing. The National Journal reports that TIA was moved from the Pentagon's research-and-development agency - known by its acronym DARPA - to another group, which builds technologies primarily for the NSA. The names of key projects were changed, apparently to conceal their identities, but their funding remained intact, often under the same contracts. We are joined by Shane Harris, the reporter for the National Journal who wrote the story "TIA Lives On". AMY GOODMAN: The issue resurfaced earlier this month when, during a hearing of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon asked John Negroponte, the head of Domestic Security; Robert Mueller, the head of the FBI; and General Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA, about the project. clip begins------- Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon questioning John Negroponte, the head of Domestic Security, Robert Mueller, the head of the FBI and General Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA, about the project. SEN. RON WYDEN: Is it correct that when John Poindexter's program, Operation Total Information Awareness, was closed, that several of Mr. Poindexter's projects were moved to various intelligence agencies? JOHN NEGROPONTE: I don't know the answer to that question. SEN. RON WYDEN: Do any of the other panel members know this? The press has reported intelligence officials saying that those programs run by Mr. Poindexter -- I and others on this panel led the effort to close it. We want to know if Mr. Poindexter's programs are going on somewhere else. Can anyone answer that? Mr. Mueller? ROBERT MUELLER: I have no knowledge of that, sir. SEN. RON WYDEN: Any other panel members? GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN: Senator, I would like to answer you in closed session. clip ends-------- AMY GOODMAN: That was Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA, saying he would like to answer in closed session, being questioned by Oregon's Senator Ron Wyden. As we turn now to Washington to Shane Harris, he is the reporter who broke the story for the National Journal. It’s called "TIA lives On." We welcome to Democracy Now! Shane. SHANE HARRIS: Hi, thanks for having me. AMY GOODMAN: Well, why don't you just start off by telling us how you learned about what is happening here, where TIA is now living? SHANE HARRIS: Right. Well, I have been following TIA and some other related kind of data mining work for a number of years. When TIA started up in 2002, it was a fairly big story for folks who were covering intelligence and homeland security, and when it went away, there was always sort of a general awareness, if you will, that there were some components of the project that had lived on, but no one was really willing to say where they had gone. That information actually was, according to informed sources that I have, was classified, and I recently just came into possession of some documents that really helped spell out where these projects went, when they moved, and what the names were changed to. So, sort of confirming what people generally knew, but in a very specific context this way. AMY GOODMAN: So, tell us exactly how TIA originated, where it was, and now how it has been broken up, and the different areas within the NSA it is. SHANE HARRIS: Right. Well, TIA was sort of the brainchild of two people: John Poindexter, whom you mentioned in your introduction, of course, was Reagan's National Security Adviser; he and a colleague, a man named Brian Sharkey, brought this idea for a system of systems that would bring together data mining tools and analysis tools to help the government predict and preempt terrorist attacks, this really right after the 9/11 attacks. The Pentagon was pretty keen on this idea. Both Poindexter and Sharkey had worked on similar projects for the Pentagon before, as contractors and as officials. And in early 2002, the Pentagon created at DARPA something called the Information Awareness Office and put Poindexter in charge of it, and this office really was meant to build TIA and to look into things like data mining, pattern recognition, software that can translate something from Arabic into English text automatically and kind of tie all these together in a sort of big prototype, which was called at the time “TIA,” and that office was in charge of it. When news broke that this had been going on for several months, the controversy was sort of fanned, not only by the privacy concerns that are raised by something like this, but also by Poindexter, at least being the titular head and the brainchild of all this, and the program was then shut down, essentially, in name only. In the 2004 Defense Authorization Act, this being the bill that authorizes the government to spend money on defense programs, TIA and most of its components were specifically eliminated under DARPA, and there was sort of a loophole that was left open that funding could continue for certain projects out of the National Foreign Intelligence Program, which is the black budget of the intelligence community. At that point the project sort of went behind that black curtain, and no one was really sure where they had gone, but what my reporting now has confirmed is that really quickly after Congress shut down TIA at DARPA, a new sponsor came forward, this new sponsor being this Research and Development Office that’s actually housed at NSA headquarters, not far from outside of Washington here, and picked up the projects, changed their names to conceal their identities, kept the same contractors that were working under TIA in place, kept the same language, the same specifications, and really just continued the work, and presumably has expanded significantly from where it was three years ago. AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Shane Harris of National Journal. I wanted to read from a William Safire column from a couple of years ago. The conservative columnist in The New York Times writes, "If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you: Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every website you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as a ‘virtual centralized grand database.’ “To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you — passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance — and you have the supersnoop's dream: a ‘Total Information Awareness’ about every U.S. citizen. “This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It’s what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks." Those are the words of the conservative columnist who had once worked for Richard Nixon, William Safire. Shane Harris of the National Journal, given what you understand of the components of this, though the public understands TIA was done away with, the components of this that live on? SHANE HARRIS: What components are living on? Yeah, essentially there are two main pieces, the first being the most important. It was something called the Information Awareness Prototype System, which is, essentially, a long name for the heart of TIA. It was the hardware, if you will, the architecture that was going to tie together what Bill Safire is really describing there in his piece, this thing that would sit at the center and collect them all. That piece lives on. It was renamed "Basketball," a rather innocuous-seeming name. My reporting could find no indication of why "Basketball" was chosen as the name for this. That continued at the NSA research office under the direction of a SAIC Corporation, which is an intelligence and defense contractor, which was working on the original prototype system. The second piece that I found that continued was something called Genoa II. This was not TIA, per se; it was a connected program trying to build analysis tools, software, all kinds of different things that would eventually feed into TIA. So it was really sort of a key component in tandem with it. That was continued under the name Topsail, also at the same place where Basketball went. Research continued on that with, as well, some of the same contractors, and apparently new contractors were brought in, as well. So what you have here is sort of the heart or core architecture of TIA and one of the biggest, most important application or tool pieces. When you put these two together, you really would have the bulk of what TIA was, before Congress effectively killed it or thought they had killed it. AMY GOODMAN: Shane Harris, 18 Democratic Congress members are calling for a special counsel to investigate eavesdropping by the NSA. How does this whole issue of Americans being spied on that is currently raging -- there will be a hearing on tomorrow -- relate to Total Information Awareness? SHANE HARRIS: Right. That is sort of the key question now. TIA, as it was -- as it existed under DARPA when Poindexter was in charge, was running at the same time as the NSA eavesdropping program that the President has authorized to eavesdrop on Americans without warrants. So officials at both agencies were aware of each other's work. That much, we know. Whether or not NSA actually took some of the experimental tools -- the searching retrieval, the data mining tools that TIA was developing -- took those and applied that to the information, the data that it was getting from U.S. citizens from their phone calls and their e-mails, that remains uncertain. But certainly, what is known is at the time, the people who were running the NSA program, who have ultimately built the technology that’s at the core of the NSA program, were very much aware of what was going on under TIA. In fact, what was going on under Total Information Awareness was not classified. There were -- Poindexter had given speeches about this. There were conferences where DARPA had invited contractors to come in and learn about TIA and sort of pitch their ideas and compete for contract work under the program. Whether or not, though, those tools were taken and applied, not sure. I interviewed Poindexter's number two from TIA, a guy named Dr. Robert Popp, and asked him specifically did NSA analysts or anyone else at NSA take these TIA tools and use them as part of this domestic surveillance program. And his response was, he said he could tell me that under Total Information Awareness, under that program, which he and Poindexter were in charge of, he knew that they had not taken those tools and used them in the domestic surveillance. However, what they did on their own time, he could not speak to that. He wasn't sure. AMY GOODMAN: And what has come of John Poindexter? SHANE HARRIS: John Poindexter now lives outside Washington and is a private consultant. I did contact him for this story. He was unwilling to comment about former TIA programs on the record for this. AMY GOODMAN: You mentioned SAIC, that was also involved with running the media in Iraq, though they lost that contract and it went to the Melbourne, Florida based company, Harris Corporation. Is Harris involved with this? SHANE HARRIS: I have not seen any documents on Harris Corporation's involvement, but SAIC was probably the most significant contractor in the whole TIA program. And it’s important to note that at the time that TIA was started up, the wholly owned subsidiary of SAIC that was the main contractor for the program was a company called Hicks & Associates. Hicks & Associates is headed by a number of former defense and intelligence officials, and one of the top executives there was a guy named Brian Sharkey, Brian Sharkey being the friend of John Poindexter who helped pitch this idea to the Pentagon after 9/11. And so, this is a fairly closed community of people and of experts with officials in the Defense Department and at contractors, primarily SAIC in this case. AMY GOODMAN: And is there any word among those in Congress, in the House or the Senate, that they are going to be looking into this, since, of course, the general perception of the public is that TIA is over, Total Information Awareness was over in all its forms? SHANE HARRIS: Right. Well, the story broke on Friday, so I personally haven't heard anything for what Congress plans, but certainly Senator Wyden -- you played the clip from the hearing from a few weeks back -- appears to be, by his line of questioning, interested in exactly what happened to these programs and, of course, you played the part where General Michael Hayden said that he would respond to the questions in closed sessions, and all I can presume is that he answered Senator Wyden's question about whether programs live on in the affirmative. AMY GOODMAN: Shane Harris, I want to thank you very much for joining us from the National Journal. He broke the story on Total Information Awareness living on. We will link to it at DemocracyNow.org. Thank you. SHANE HARRIS: Thank you. http://www.democracynow.org http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10246 It wasn't a dig Alan and I salute your open mindedness to the situation. However, I do believe this is a black and white issue. There is no point in an ID card. Leaving aside the privacy issues we have photo driving licences, we will soon have biometric details embedded in our passports (apart from the cost I'm not opposed to making passports more secure), we have national insurance numbers and bank accounts. There is no need for an all encompassing form of ID unless it is for the sole purpose of keeping tabs on the only people that will bother getting one, the law abiding, tax paying British citizen to whom the threat of a criminal record or a stint in prison is sufficient to make them play ball. The case has not been made that ID cards are a financially viable way to solve the problems of benefit fraud. The actual cost of benefit fraud is miniscule compared with the cost of implementing ID cards. It is those claiming benefits legitimately that cost the taxpayer the most money. Is an ID card going to prevent people having children they can’t afford in order to claim child benefit and a council house? Is it going to prevent the practice of massaging unemployment figures by offering applicants incapacity benefits instead of job seekers allowance? Is it going to stop unscrupulous lottery winners claiming legal aid? Will it put an end to pensioners who have worked all their lives, many of whom have fought for our sovereignty and freedom paying extortionate council tax whilst those who won’t work get council tax benefit and receive up to £56.20 per week for doing nothing. You know the answer to all of the above. Why implement such a costly and monumentally pointless scheme when it will not put a stop to any of the injustices or security issues our society and the world faces today. How many people could we vaccinate against malaria and other treatable diseases and afflictions like diarrhoea, which kills millions in the third world, these treatments cost pennies not billions. Maybe, just maybe instead of bombing random middle eastern countries and keeping 80% of the world in poverty through EU and US subsidises, whilst making vain attempts to protect ourselves against the rest of the world’s justified hatred, maybe we should use that money to pluck the root of fundamentalism from the festering hole of poverty, injustice and despair and instead of being universally hated, some of that 80% might just say “hey, the British government fought for a level playing field on trade with Europe and the US, lobbied against sweat shop conditions and for a global minimum wage, pressured the US, China and Australia to sign up to the Kyoto accord, paid for the drugs that saved my child.” I know it sounds naive, I’m just pointing out that there are better and less costly methods to make Briton and the world a safer place. ID cards are not the answer. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_10218 Mark...I did not say that ID cards would enable us to quickly and easilly send all illegal immigrants home. I suggested that they could be helpful in stopping things such as benefit fraud, illegal employees and employed and other areas of crime. As an ex soldier and goverment employee I have had to carry an ID card most of my life so it is not an alien feeling to me. I realise that a national ID card is a huge step to take and if we go down that road then we have to be sure that it will be worth it in the long term. I do not see it as a black and white issue so until the shaded areas become clear to me I still have an open mind. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9805 I will never carry one, the controlfreaks incharge know too much as it is. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9727 Mark - your crystal clear comment is 100% correct! http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9725 Having some experience of the UK immigration process I am able to inform Alan that we catch illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers all the time, their applications to remain in the UK are assessed, and if refused they appeal, then if they don’t like the result of that appeal they will appeal again until this avenue is exhausted. Then they will make a claim under human rights legislation and several appeals and spurious legal challenges down the line they might be removable. Each one of these cases costs the British taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds and at best ends in a free flight home for a lawyer’s meal ticket. It currently takes years to remove most FAS and illegal entrants who have no legal right to stay in the UK, even if they are put on a flight all they have to do is kick up a bit of a stink and they will be taken off the plane and removal directions cancelled. The thickness of most of the files that cross my desk can be measured in inches due to the number of appeals these individuals are entitled to, it is farcical and grossly disingenuous to suggest that an ID card will somehow speed up or bypass the legal process or even lend any weight to a prosecution. How do you think the European Court of Human Rights will react to a refusal based on not having an ID card – I expect that the ruling will be overturned, this will set a president and suddenly the UK ID card will not only be ineffective but legally redundant too. I believe what we have with ID cards is another example of Tony Blair blindly going ahead with a deeply flawed plan because he has travelled down a path so far that it is now too late to turn back, just like Iraq, we are getting ID cards so our Prime Minister saves face. We have an oligarch desperately trying to salvage his place in history buy going out on a victory regardless of whether it is what the country wants or needs, the matter of government is just a PR exercise to this clown. To Roger, I know it’s unpleasant to think that the people that you voted in to run your life might be lying to you but you really should open your eyes and stop believing what you’re told to believe because at the moment you just sound like one of a herd of cattle, joining the queue for your brand. I’m not asking you to believe any conspiracies, but just to think independently as an intelligent rational human being about the events that have taken place since George W Bush took power, the timing of these events and to recognise who has benefited from the fallout, I suspect you will find a number of rich powerful white men slapping each other on the back. Just think for yourself, the answers are all around you. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9595 Warwick Pearmund: With respect, it appears that you are considering only half of the issue. You have asked yourself whether there are any reasons why the ID scheme *should not* be introduced (the alleged human rights issues, and so on), decided that you are not convinced by the arguments, and concluded that you support the introduction of ID cards. In my view, you have missed a vital part of the question; namely, whether there are any reasons why the scheme *should* be introduced. Regardless of your views about the civil rights argument (and I can't argue with you on this, as you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion), you cannot deny that the scheme would, if introduced, require a vast amount of public money to set up and maintain (which could instead be used to bolster the failing education or health services, for example). This expense can surely only be justified if it can be shown that there are clearly achievable benefits expected - and the balance of independent opinion seems to be that there are none: the financial gains from the reduction in benefit fraud are far outweighed by the cost of the scheme itself, any impact on identity fraud can last only as long as it takes criminals to crack the system (and there can surely be no doubt that they will, sooner or later), and the suggestion that the scheme is a necessary counter-terrorism measure is frankly laughable. I could go on, but these points have been made elsewhere in far more detail than I could manage. So if you're not convinced by the arguments *opposing* the scheme, fair enough... but that's no reason to be convinced by the arguments in favour. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9594 http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_america_run_by_criminal_syndicate.htm Congresswoman Says America Run By Criminal Syndicate McKinney: American citizens could be put in forced labor camps Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | February 14 2006 Cynthia McKinney, the only House Representative to stand up to the Bush White House crime syndicate, has gone further than ever before in her efforts to warn people about what the Neo-Cons' ultimate goals actually entail for freedom in America. During a recent radio interview on the Alex Jones Show, McKinney illustrated the nature of a corrupt occupational government, stating that the administration was "stolen in 2000 and stolen again in 2004." McKinney said that it was doing the government a favor to describe them as a "criminal syndicate." "It appears to me that our country is literally being hollowed out....our economy is being hollowed out," said McKinney. McKinney shared Alex Jones' fears and those previously voiced by Republican Congressman Ron Paul, that Americans may be arrested and taken to forced labor camps in light of recent developments confirming Kellogg Brown and Root have secured a government contract to build the camps. Regarding 9/11, McKinney lent credibility to the 9/11 truth scholars who recently came forth with empirical evidence proving that the official story is a fallacy. "It's clear that something was terribly amiss on that day with our people who were in charge....they didn't even follow standard operating procedure," said McKinney and the Congresswoman agreed that US authorities stood down on 9/11. Covering the subject of worldwide human trafficking and sex slavery, a practice embraced by Dyncorp and lobbied for by Halliburton subsidiary representatives, McKinney responded by saying, "they steal elections with the same ease that they steal women and little girls." McKinney made headlines two years ago when she directly confronted Donald Rumsfeld about the US government's collaboration with companies that engage in human trafficking and the four wargames held on September 11. McKinney highlighted the MK Ultra program as a past example of where the US government had experimented with turning US soldiers into killing machines and expressed her sadness that some troops were apparently under a similar influence in light of the alarming incidents at Fort Bragg. McKinney is spearheading a movement to have all records pertaining to the death of Martin Luther King released. McKinney said that King was clearly murdered. "A jury said in 1999 that it was a US government conspiracy, including the highest individuals at the highest levels of the United States government. I have no reason to disbelieve them." "If they would do that then to Martin Luther King Jnr. at a stage now where we have a law that defines enemy combatants, we all could be enemy combatants just by dissenting from what this administration does and they could do the same thing to us." McKinney scorned the federal government for their actions following Hurricane Katrina. "The American people were once again abandoned, they were abandoned by their own government and Secretary Michael Chertoff has gotten off scott free on this." "They needed food and water and instead they were sent men with guns and Blackwater mercenaries were hired to patrol the streets of New Orleans. This is criminal! How can we have mercenaries patrolling the streets of America?" "You had an administration that was AWOL and they had the nerve to bring other folks up on criminal charges for even being conscientious objectors." http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9592 The US is run by a crime syndicate - Senator Cynthia McKinney, 06 Feb 2006 Bliar is probably pretty pleased with his latest job done for the New World Order. He should remember however that 'there is many a slip twixt cup and lip'. The wretched ID system seems to be on it's way to becoming law, but the NWO will not wish to give up their favorite tools; state sponsored terrorism and imperialist war. When the sleeping British public experience the expensive, time consuming and intrusive ID card first hand, and they also notice that war, terrorism and crime does not decrease, Bliar's successors may find it rather difficult to enforce the despotic ID card scheme. http://www.fakewar.org http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2#comment_9590 We still have time to fight against this Corporate Nazi Totalitarian Regime. The bill has now gone to the Lords - lets give a fight and keep fighting. Remember who really rules - real power - only power - only it has to be used for once! If you think you are safe being silent and submitting to all of this you are the first to get it! Will you willingly become a slave? Will you be branded a number like Jews were by Nazis!? Are you ready for the chip and our DNA to on on a central database and sold to biotechnology companies ready for them to genetically engineer human DNA into the food you eat? Well some of this already happens - the NHS even sell samples to biotechnology companies and have done for some years without anyone permission - they call this selling information. Since DNA is a code they get away with it. Things you can come to expect are the chip, no rights, no freedom, no choice, no life - when we lose privacy, freedom and our rights we cease to be humans. http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/140206bID.htm http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/140206bIDcards.htm http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/140206bbigbrother.htm http://infowars.net/articles/february2006/140206Authoritarian_Rule.htm http://infowars.net/articles/january2006/240106defeated.htm Yes, it was Home Secretary Charles Clarke that said biometric identity cards are useless at fighting crime and preventing terrorism. The simple reason why it that because almost all terror is state sponsored. And endorsed by EU and UN banking institutions. http://www.getusout.org/artman/publish/cat_index_19.shtml Down with the Nazi Totalitarian State! Down with state sponsored fear/terror and all intelligence agency industrialised propaganda campaigns. Down with the corporate government! Show them that we rule them and they only exist to serve us. This can then be called a Democracy - where we call the shots. We want freedom, rights and privacy. People power still rules, the world is this way because we allow the world to be the way it is. Wake up - self educate yourself - ignore and counteract all state opinions embedded in your brain. Feel free - let knowledge liberate you. We will never give in. We already won but this Regime keeps pushing further with their agenda. Are you prepared to allow everything we have fought for hundreds of years be wasted and in vain? What a waste of tens of millions of lives that is! If you submit and allow this to happen you are not a human! Do you wish we had lost WW2? You may as well do if you support ID cards, the Jewish people were forced to have ID cards so they could be reduced to a number, tracked traced and persecuted 24/7. If you think the torture in Iraq is not widespread you know nothing! If you think you won't get a taste of it after you have submitted and surrendered all of your free will willingly then you are a fool. In the USA tens of thousands are being tortured or have been as you read this now, in secret military bases used to interrogate innocent people. The largest corporation around the globe says ID cards actually increase fraud and ID theft! But you are a slave and only believe the propaganda from corporate-government that forms your opinions? Alongside banking institutions! Support and investments. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/080106ID.htm http://www.infowars.net/articles/october2005/181005massivefraud.htm http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/nat_id_lead_to_massive_fraud.htm WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP FIGHTING. How do you think Intelligence Officers go to any country covertly? The same as some criminals and terrorists do that is how. So it is right to say the MI5/MI6/SIS know what they are talking about then it comes to homeland security, I would say so and I am not alone. Ex-MI5 Chief Calls ID Cards "Useless" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4444512.stm http://www.theregister.com/2005/11/17/id_cards_have_bad_day IF THE DAY COMES TO REGISTER FOR AN ID CARD - NEVER SUBMIT - FIGHT! FIGHT LIKE THE FREE MAN/WOMEN YOU ARE. FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, NEVER SURRENDER. NEVER SUBMIT. WE WILL WIN - WE ARE PEOPLE POWER. THE WORLD IS SHAPED BY YOUR OPNIONS AND SELF BELIEF SYSTEM - YOU ALLOW THE WORLD TO BE THE WAY IT IS. THE WORLD IS THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE WE ALLOW IT TO BE. TIME TO FIGHT - FOR FREEDOM.