http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse Comments on 'refuse to register for an ID card and will donate £10 to a legal defence fund' en-gb team@pledgebank.com hourly 2 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15825 Tina, Thanks for your support, sorry the deadline had expired. With the passing of the ID cards Bill into law, we shall shortly be mailing all those who signed our 3 pledges (refuse, refuse2 & resist) with details of how to donate to the defence fund. There is of course no obligation to pay up on an 'unsuccessful' pledge - but many have already told us that they will. Finding a friendly law firm who can administer it and hold monies in trust (without charge) has proven a little more difficult than we had hoped! We also appreciate that there are quite a number of people like you who will refuse to register as well. We'll be providing another way for people to declare this, soon. Thank you for your patience. Phil Booth National Coordinator, NO2ID http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15806 I heard this scheme was going to cost £19 billion over 10 years to run. That £19 billion could instead be used to fund an extra 64,000 policemen/women over 10 years. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15778 well i dont want a card i have nothing to hide at all.but i like my freedom to express myself and go where i want and would like to reserve the right our grandparents fought for, allowing me to stand up to people who would take that freedom away from me through their dictatorship. I just finished watching V for vendetta in the cinema and how similar does that look to where we are headed (in a hollywood sort of way).with the government filling us with fear by invading other peoples countries and then them retaliating against us. telling us of deadly bird flus, scary muslim extemeists and anything else in the world they can get us to be scared of or in a fight with,they have generated large amounts of fear of terrorism and anyone who differs from ourselves.this allows them to bring in an identity card which is supposed to help reduce terrorism and imigrants and benefit fraud amongst other things.with an identity card that can probably track our everymove, and we will no doubt one day not be able to buy toilet paper without showing it,they will have there foot in the door so to speak. once we are used to this it will be implanting small micro chips into us like we do with dogs saying it will be for our benefit as we wont need to carry cards as they can get lost or damaged costing us more money, reducing our tax bill (sounds great)and it will be better for the enviroment because plastic is bad for the environment and we dont want all that scary global warming do we(more fear). they will have total control of us leaving them with the ability to change laws and rules to suit them and anyone who stands in there way will easily be locatable and dealt with preventing any resistance against the government in any form, check mate.of course it wont start off like that at first im sure it will be a few limited things you require it for but then the requirements will probably grow over time untill you cant do anything without an id card.muhahahaha or perhaps in reality it will prevent anyone under 18 buying drink and knives and fireworks and other naughty things them kids shouldn't have that make our lives miserable, it might also speed up the process that gets us our various types of benefit, or save us digging around the house trying to find two forms of i.d every time you want a loan or credit card or even a video card so it may be a good thing after all hmmm....the debate continues. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15645 I totally support this pledge and came to sign - but missed the deadline! Personally, I will refuse regardless of the consequenses, to have the scan or provide additional details. I imagine a symathetic lawyer will be required - any suggestions? I object on too many grounds for this comment box and note that many have been intelligently put across here by other commenters. On a side not, EDMUND (also known as Kamil) has an incredible grasp of the English language on this pledge - on mine, he is an Iraqi with poor English, who is pro-occupation. Good pledge. Namaste, Tina Louise http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15314 Wake up Rick. The 15 year old is still going to steal the purse. ID cards won't stop that. What they will do though, is make it possible for you to be put in beside the 22 stone lifer and you will get a source arse for doing fuck all. Do you really trust Bliar?? Would you allow a pedophile to look after your children?? Check this out and see what Bliar's pals have been getting up to. http://www.infowars.com/video/clips/news/september_11/032006_charlie_sheen_911_wm.htm http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15277 Rick, thanks for showing us your true face... As for ID cards and criminals - the sick fuck that stole my handbag, from my lap whilst I was in my wheelchair would not have been deterred by ID cards. Police said they were probably a junkie. If as expected his fingerprints are already on file, then the envelope that once held cash in my bag which they opened, will help identify them to police. I'd prefer that the money to be wasted on ID cards went towards proper, high quality drug rehab and counselling, with a higher profile for police on the streets, which has more of a chance of stopping crime such as these. Rick, before you start whineing, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal - just seen first hand how rehab saved an old schoolfriend, making him a constructive, hard working member of our community, whilst another acquaintance was banged up, not given any rehab with freely available drugs in prison, and the first thing he did on his release was robbery to fund his habit. ID cards will not stop the things you screech about, but well-funded and thought-through policies can. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15265 Hey you know what? - it would be a waste to spend 30 billion quid on ID cards. Why don't we spend it arming the police, giving them training, and telling them to shoot burglars, car thieves, muggers, rapists etc - that would solve prison over-crowding, and also act as a fantastic deterrent - that junkie would think twice about stealing for his fix if he knew he would run the risk of getting a cap in his ass !!! An old woman of 80 was recently punched in the face by a teenage thug, who stole her fish supper and the £1.50 or so she had in her purse. The shock was too much for her system and she later died. Within a month this scum bag is back on the street! If the cops had just shot him when they found him, then no more problem !!!! - and I tell you what, less crime because if you get caught, you die !!! Forget ID cards, arm the police, and really get tough on crime. Rick. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15263 Funny how one moment the pro-database lot are telling us there'll be no information on there that isn't already held, and the next minute they're claiming this same very ordinary information will magically enable the authorities to detect crimes before they're committed and send the evil thought-crims to Guantanamo Bay. By the way, Edmund, the former head of MI5 has said ID cards will not help in fighting terrorism and a senior MI6 official has said the system will be "a present" to terrorists and organised criminals. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15262 Edmund, Whate are you on? All the details already held about me are on seperate databases, I don't have a police record (not even a caution) and as such they don't have my fingerprints. So, if I have never done anything wrong (and don't intend to). Why should I submit my fingerprints to a central database that thousands of PRIVATE companies will have access to? And as far as I know, the fingerprints being submitted as part of this scheme will not be cross referenced with unsoved crimes. Even if they were (and the database query for this would take years to execute), you are assuming that fingerprints were found at the crime scene. Chances are, they weren't. Do you honestly believe that however much ID cards end up costing us (be it 5 bilion, 10 billion or 30 Billion) that the money wouldn't be more effectively spent on the police force? I'm sure if you asked any chief police officer or a PC walking the street, whether they would prefer an extra 5/10/30 Billion in funding or ID cards, what do you think the answer would be? They have ID cards in other countries, not to the same extent we are proposing, but they have them. Has crime been dramatically reduced there? No, because they don't make the slightest bit of difference. If anything, they make it worse because people perceive crimes like fraud to be impossible with ID cards, all that really happens, is that the nature of crime evolves. It is a complete waste of money, every day there are announcements of thousands of job losses in hospitals, I can't get into a dentist anywhere (not even 15 miles away), public transport is a disgrace and expensive, the roads are falling apart, prisons are over crowded, people are losing millions on bankrupt pension funds & we have a growing energy crisis. Yet, despite all these huge problems, you think it is a good idea to spend tens of billions of public money on ID cards! http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15231 Andy. Date of birth 1ST JAN 1965. Birth recorded.mum and dad details. Doctor.......... school.... library.. NI No car details work place Police record caught with pot 1982 council tax details Passport Driving license details Bank details(credit score) Its all there already.what else is there to know. Now your fingerprints please. Sorry sir.Did you send a letter claiming you are the yorkshire ripper? 10,000 crimes waiting to be solved. These scum are on borrowed time andy. Could also be the scum who was going to smash you for you wallet. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15196 Rick, if you had any brain cells left after your BNP meetings, you would know that suicide bommers almost always have no previous convictions. How many of the July 7 bommers had ever done anything wrong in the past? That is the whole point about suicide bommers, they have normal jobs, a house, a family, they work hard, don't claim benfits and appear to be completely law abiding citizens. Lessons Osama learnt directly from the CIA during the Afghan war with Russia in the eighties! Even if they had been very naughty in the past, how would an ID card help stop them blowing up a bus? If the police know they are extremists, then they know whether we have ID cards or not. It won't make any difference, all ID cards will do is to encourage people like you that the database can be used to isolate more and more people, which in turn will feed more extremism and more terrorists. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15176 guantanamo bay - the most succesful tool for extremist recuitment in the world?! and unless you have to show your ID card and have it scanned to talk to a 'radical rag-head', how will it help? i just can't see any practical applications of these arguements! another point is that finger printing and DNA is very good at one-to-one matches - so if someone can be shown to have motive, opportunity and has left DNA at a scene, then it is compelling. as far as a DNA database which can be searched to find matches, the false positive rate will be enormous. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15151 Very well said Andy. It's really weird to read these commenters who seem to believe that an ID database will somehow "do something about" immigrants, numbers of people claiming welfare, people smoking on street corners (?!), etc. This is the constituency the government is appealing to -- the ones who seem to want to live in a world where "not being the sort of person I like" is a criminal offence, and who think ID cards will magically make that happen. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15121 Edmund, Anyone with the knowledge and tools can get into any system. It's all about time & patience. Getting into a bank is relatively straight forward, it's fairly common! But to do it and make a profit involves transferring money, this leaves a trail from which you can easily get caught. People hacking into the ID card system will do it just to read your records and potentially edit them. You might be fine with this, but I am not! So, are you saying that I can't refuse something that I don't want? Do you think it is fair to force someone to register their details, if they don't want to and have done nothing wrong? Don't say it's voluntary because we all know that if I want a passport I have to have an ID card, that isn't voluntary. All the people who support this (no where near 70 % from my experience), have never been able to tell me HOW ID cards will stop all the anti social behaviour. So Edmund, we have a junkie, wanting to get £20 for his next fix. How will an ID card stop him smashing you in the face and nicking your wallet? If you can tell me that I will be a step closer to accepting them. How will it make someone who is a lazy article, getting off their arse and getting a job? And, if I chose to blow up a bus in London, how would an ID card stop me from doing it? ID cards will NOT change behaviour (how on earth can they), they are for IDENTIFICATION, hence the name ID card! They are to be used for commercial purposes to prove who you are when you sign up for credit or claim benefits and to allow the Government to sell your details onto mass marketing companies. That's it! Please PROVE to me how they can do anything else. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15019 EDMUND: Again, you are citing real problems in society and using this to justify your support for ID cards... but without establishing how you think they will help. Even leaving aside for a moment the practical issue of whether a database with 60 million entries would be searchable by police as a matter of routine (and there is no way with current technology that it could be, as the system would be utterly overloaded), you are forgetting that the criminals you speak of would *know* that their fingerprints were in the register. If you are suggesting that most criminals (drug addicts or otherwise) would be too desperate or stupid to exercise even the small amount of foresight required to put on a pair of gloves, while knowing full well that their fingerprints were accessible to police, then I feel you are likely to be sorely mistaken. Moreover, those few who really *are* desperate or mindless enough to lack that foresight are hardly likely to think "ah no, I'd best not carry out this violent attack, because the police have my fingerprints." This has nothing to do with "Blair bashing", it is simple common sense. ID cards cannot help deal with the problems you cite, whereas other things (such as using the money to boost funding for the police, instead) can. It doesn't matter how many "shopping centre managers" you find who believe that ID cards are the answer, because I'm afraid they're not. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15017 The Unemployed should clock in at the job centre at 6 am and out at 3pm everyday with their new I.D.card.Why are we so soft in this country.I am on a bus,a full bus,at 6 a m everyday with all the hardworking time clocking workers in London.The unemployed are still asleep in their nice warm beds waiting for their free payments to pop through their letter box.If I were unemployed I would not complain if Instead of going into London on a cold bus I could just sign on at the jobcentre. I would stay in my routine and if I could not get a job I would be pleased with my benefits,as I deserve.It would also stop me from getting another cash in hand job due to my attendance times....KEN.. £8 BIT STEEP old chap. This may swing some onto the dole. Can someone in the great solar I.T.land explain .If these hackers can get into your accounts anyway .why are you worried about us having the new I.D.cards.? http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15004 Nic The majority of criminals are on drugs or its impulse crime.They will smash your car window or your face with whatever they can get their hands on at the spur of the moment.Get their hands on means fingerprints.Todays headlines.(not the 10 oclock news 1st june 2013) Mobile phone theft at record high.That means assaults on men woman AND CHILDREN are out of control.Stop this selfish attitude and think of the silent 20 million nic.We dont need Blair bashing,if it were Cameron it would still be 70% in favour of Protection cards (I.D. Cards)My Lords,with great respect,please think of the common people who are suffering daily with these criminals.Give the police all the help they need.This is not political.This is common sense. My recent research answers. Mr shopping centre manager what do you think of I.D.cards. Bring them in now was the answer.We are fed up with,not only known drug addicts,who need to feed a £200 a day habit but also the gangs of pickpockets. Underground type turnstiles and the honest customers would love it.They welcomed the exclusion of the hoodies didnt they.Remember the shops charge 3% to cover theft.This could be refunded to the customer. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_15001 Nic The majority of criminals are on drugs or its impulse crime.They will smash your car window or your face with whatever they can get their hands on at the spur of the moment.Get their hands on means fingerprints.Todays headlines.(not the 10 oclock news 1st june 2013) Mobile phone theft at record high.That means assaults on men woman AND CHILDREN are out of control.Stop this selfish attitude and think of the silent 20 million nic.We dont need Blair bashing,if it were Cameron it would still be 70% in favour of Protection cards (I.D. Cards)My Lords,with great respect,please think of the common people who are suffering daily with these criminals.Give the police all the help they need.This is not political.This is common sense. My recent research answers. Mr shopping centre manager what do you think of I.D.cards. Bring them in now was the answer.We are fed up with,not only known drug addicts,who need to feed a £200 a day habit but also the gangs of pickpockets. Underground type turnstiles and the honest customers would love it.They welcomed the exclusion of the hoodies didnt they.Remember the shops charge 3% to cover theft.This could be refunded to the customer. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_14477 A Prime Minister more dishonest than Tony Blair. Really? Now that would be something. I did wonder why the government was so obsessed with ID card when the case for them has been so discredited. Then I saw the list of individuals who had 'loaned' money to the Labour Party. Surprise Surprise. Many of them are the heads of IT companies that stand to make billions, not millions, of pounds from their introduction. http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse#comment_14377 IT people need to make more public noise about this in other than IT specialist circles and publications. In countries where ID cards and databases already exist, are there figures for hacking into the systems? Ian