http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry Comments on 'pay £5 towards an open inquiry into why 200,000 Labour Party members have resigned, and 4 million voters switched allegiance since 1997' en-gb team@pledgebank.com 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 2 hourly http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_233577 Hope that blair will withdraw and go away! we need peace in the world http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_229706 lol @ "Yah boo" http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6673 Every party is taken over by a 'cabal.' This was shown by the discrepancy between member and MP preference in the recent Conservative leadership contest (and previous ones). The real problem arises when the cabal is wrong/out of touch (always, arguably) or whether it is just seeing things from a different perspective (again, always, arguably). We are talking about a complex sociological reality. Looking at the level of your expensive but 'Yah boo sucks!' website, I am not sure that you are yet sufficiently adult to make any valuable contribution to the discussion. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6666 At last some Labour members with some sense. The first step to recovery, is to realise you have a problem. The next is identifying what that problem is. Labour have been taken over by a cabal and it heartens me to see that some are seeing that now. The sooner Labour recovers it's pride and principles, the better! I'll leave you to sort it out in peace now. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6659 I voted against Blair for leader and have consistently opposed New Labour. Now they are showing signs of falling apart. This is the opportunity for socialists to save the Labour Party. Join the debate on:- http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/LandSF Michael Chewter http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6650 Stewart It's a tough call. Members naturally want to be loyal to their government and leader. It's hard to tell when it has gone so far that being loyal is actually damaging the party. In a way it's easier with Tony Blair because he is becoming outrageous and continually daring someone to stop him. George Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. But I don't think Partnership in Power can be given more teeth. I don't actually want the membership to be given power so that their decisions over ride the executive. But what I do want is the membership to be given a way of expressing a view. In my opinion this can't happen through a representative route which is discredited and easily manipulated by a control mad executive. Look at the NEC. On the other hand it would be perfectly possible to poll members on their views regularly and publish the results. This is open to some abuse in question selection etc. but is far less easily manipulated and the way to go. Frances http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6649 I think Stewart has a good point. I often find myself trying to defend policies that were basically decided on by a very small group of powerful people, and then imposed on the party with little consultation. Clearly the tools of consultation and debate in the party such as Partnership in Power need to be given more teeth, and Labour members need to feel that the policies they're defending are ones they approved of or were asked about in the first place. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6646 Reading the conversation with Matt etc, it's suddenly hit me. I feel I am constantly defending the party for policies I was never consulted on, or were not in place at the time I joined. Many of the policies don't even apply in Scotland, yet we are getting grief because, for example, people up here think they are getting City Academies etc. By not properly including members in the decision making process there is a real risk that members will no longer identify with the party. Those who think that is ok so long as the party keeps winning elections are heading for a rude awakening. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6643 George is obviously right about UKIP being right-wing, Matt, so who do you think you're kidding? Sorry the other Matthew chose to crap on my insect analogy, but at least it was original (and true). Will they let me in the Labour & socialist forum, Frances? I'm getting a bit old for all this virtual frisking. :| Love and Peace, not war & hate. Starting here, pls. ^_________^ http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6637 Message from Michael Chewter - all socialists who are working within the Labour Movement are invited to join the discussion on Labour and Socialist Forum. Just send a blank email to LandSF-subscribe@yahoogroups.com George and others, social democrats and socialists need to find a way of working together to find a way forward for the Labour Party. STLP is trying to get some democracy back in the party which is great but come and join us aswell if you want to talk through all the current policy issues. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6636 You don't even try to argue on the facts or issues at all, and have insulted me personally quite a lot. I resent being called a 'fascist', and saying that I follow everything that Blair says is ridiculous - I have made it clear that I want to get rid of Blair, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the good the government has done. I oppose Blair on parts of NHS reform, terrorism legislation, some parts of education reform, trade union legislation and other issues. I've just realised that you're a UKIP person, from your blog, which makes it really really funny that you should accuse me, a Social Democrat, of being a fascist, given that it is well known that UKIP is full of ex National Front and BNP people. This link http://www.britainineurope.org.uk/.ten/articles/theres-something-about-ukip tells us everything we need to know about UKIP. I almost took you seriously before - but a representative of a hard-right party accusing a moderate left-of-centre person of being fascist is genuinely hilarious. You are comically pathetic. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6635 Stunning argumentive skills from George. Personal insults and wild assumptions on what newspaper I read. Now I know it might be hard for a fascist to follow, as I understnd you need uncle Tone to tell you how to think, but I actually gave up reading newspapers sometime ago. I grew sick of being spoon fed propaganda and with the internet you get all sides of the story. No I like it here, as this place exposes more than anywhere why the Labour party has become the sick disgrace that it is. You just can't comprehend that Labours short term envy politics, pushed through with fascism and spin, is creating a fat bloated state that will collapse on our childrens futures. All you can see is the handouts and make-jobs, which you think is great. It's a bit like a crack dealer, getting the people hooked on drugs, while robbing everyone else and screwing everyone in the long run. You keep taking the crack George. You are a beacon to the British public why this Labour government needs to be removed and the sooner the better. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6629 Ordinary termites. Yes a very good description. A powerful group made up of small individuals of limited intelligence that undermines the house in order to build a tower of mud to live in. A very apt description of what the Lab/Con party is doing to Britain. When we are all slaves in your giant mechinical beauracracy will you be happy? No you'll just find another house to undermine or another termite mound to go to war with. Both pathetic and depressing! http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6627 We are just ordinary people, Matt, and our manners are not all that different from what you'd expect from a termite colony detecting a breach of defences by some determined ants. Kevin needs to look at the history if he thinks that the idea of a populist party sloughing its own roots is something new - we're going to need more profound thinking than that, and a bit less 'holier-than-thou' from our invaders wouldn't go amiss. ;) http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6625 Dear me, wishing people who don't vote Labour dead who don't like the Labour party, that just about says it all. I don't pigeonhole myself as left or right either no, that is true. I'll take that as a compliment, even if it is from someone who supports illegal war, authortarianism and wants people to die who don't agree with him. Here people, is the answer to who are the 1 in 5 people still voting Labour. It ain't a pretty sight is it. New Labour, neo fascism, laid bare for all to see. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6623 Labour was once democratic, and had a large democratic membership. Now it has become autocratic - virtually a dictatorship - so surely there is no point in being a member of the party? I'm speculating this is the reason for the dearth of members and the apparent popularity of the Lib Dems? I am a member of no party - just a casual observer who reminisces about the civil liberties we loved and lost... http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6617 Both you lads show indications of some core Labour values, which is good, but it must make life difficult in your new political homes, I'll wager! Tho you share some of our frustrations you really mustn't get carried away by it, and start blaming us for what to me looks like right-wing intelligence and the corruption of office (will the effect of the latter be lessened if we all hive off into a more right-wing vehicle? I don't think so!). Mind you, you both then go on to express an intolerance which makes our boys in Whitehall look good, so perhaps it's all your faults, at bottom? http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6616 I find it ironic that you ask people why Labour has lost members and then when someone tells you what they think the reasons are you attack them. I cannot believe you want to waste money on what is blindingly obvious. The Labour party is no longer the Labour party (i.e. clause 4, privatisation). Labour sold out its members by adopting Tory policies and shutting up people like Dennis Skinner. If you really want to know what’s wrong ask Dave Nellis(Ex Coventry MP), oh you can’t because Tony Blair had him kicked out, he wouldn’t be controlled unlike most of the other Labour career politicians. I could go on but from your comments on Matt Davies I suspect my comments will fall on deaf ears. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6615 Yes that's it, pretend it is all the other peoples fault, and not your own. That kind of attitude should see Labour wiped out at the next election, which suits me. I said before I will wear a badge of shame for putting Blair in. To still vote for him after him and his yes-men took us to illegal war based on lies, robbed the future of us and our children by stealing 5 bn a year from our pensions, ban everything possible, back police killing innocent people and lying about it, introducing a scheme Hitler would be proud of (ID cards and centralised database), made it impossible for anyone to get an NHS dentists, building all over Britains greenbelt, handing over our laws to an unelected foreign body, putting more of our pensioners in poverty than ever before, increasing indirectect taxation by stealth effecting the poor the most, totally destroying our education system, sadling our students with massive debt by charging tuition fees, allowing our children to be fed junk for years, giving criminals more rights than law abiding citizens. Anyone who votes for a party with that record, just because they are not the Tories, well it beggers belief. I think champaigne socialism exaplains it nicley. Hooked on the tax credits stolen from others, rather than having to work for a tax free wage. Employed by a government that has increased public workers to unsustainable levels. Sod the future eh, must steal other peoples money to fund a reliance on the state system culture. Yeah the Soviets tried that too. http://www.pledgebank.com/labOURinquiry#comment_6606 I am most grateful to Matt Davies for epitomising, and giving voice to, the false logic behind opinion which has, let's face it, become extremely widespread and popular regarding war and other recent Labour Government policies. It is simply irrational and unfair to blame individual Labour Party members and supporters for gung-ho policies, and to completely absolve himself, and millions of other former Labour voters, for adding surplus fuel to what we all here seem to agree to be a vessel off course. Don't presume to take the responsibility of adv(ert)i sing a new direction in British party politics, Matt, until you have come to terms with, and taken responsibility for, the the executive decisions which you, as a voter, have made in the past.