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Yes, Andy, but the devil's in the detail: it's not the easy-to-grasp slogan "Stop ID Cards" any more. They have (to all intents and purposes) 'stopped'ID cards. They're on to an all singing and dancing passport now. Do we say "Stop passports!"? What this means in fact is we have to go into detail and subtleties that are virtually impossible to put across in a simple almost one-dimensional way both in a public face-to-face situation and at a public meeting. This is what I'm saying: I'm not debating the things we've all done up to now, like leafletting, having a stall here and there, and generally publicising the opposition to ID CARDS. I'm trying to grapple with the question of how to put across to the public that the passport thing is just as dangerous as the ID cards would have been (in terms of the database) without the advantages on our side of 'issues'we can make something of, like the government's former lying claims that the cards would have prevented terrorism, illegal immigration, identity fraud,and their desire to number and tag us all like criminals, plus the huge cost of the things. One also now has to counter a possibly large body of opinion which feels that the 'new' passport is a good idea - because (unstated) it will help to prevent terrorism, illegals, fraud, blah,blah,blah!. This is how subtle the government is. We have to deal with the new game. How?Judith Chisholm, 14 years ago.