http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000 Comments on 'become a liberty activist in New Hampshire by September 30, 2011' en-gb team@pledgebank.com 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 2 hourly http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2993055 Just signed the pledge! I'll be there in May of 2010. Just a few months away. Cannot wait! http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992982 I wanted to ask for a bit of help if possible. I've been for some time now doing a lot of reading (started with 9/11 issues then one thing led to another) regarding liberty which led me to Ron Paul which led me to others which lead me to FreeKeene.com which led me here. I want to get involved somehow. Here's the dilemma: I am originally from Mass. Moved to NH back in 1994. It was HOME to me. Met my current husband there in 2001. Without all the details, through a lot of different events that took place in our lives, and after living a few years in Maine, we decided to move to Mass where I have family. That was 2006. It has been a miserable road and we regret ever leaving. We have been longing to come back that way but my husband has been unemployed and we are without a vehicle. In short, what I am asking is maybe some connection for job leads up that way where my husband can get connected with some people, work hard and eventually be able to move the kids and I back that way. We discussed this and he said he'd go yesterday just to be able to work. I know we are strangers but he is a hard worker and we love and miss NH terribly. Seeing you would like more people up there for the cause of liberty and I want to be involved in that cause, maybe someone could spread the word and we could look in to getting back that way. Anyway, our names are Jim and Theresa Cunningham and you can reach me at withfootnotes@yahoo.com if you have any questions or would just like to talk and make sure this is legit. Thank you in advance! And for all your hard work to further the cause of liberty. I feel very proud to be a part of that, if only by moral support right now. Theresa http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992205 Mr. President, What has happened to us in the United States of America ? We, in regards to equality, do not up stand , our 9th Amendment,our United States Bill of Rights, Our United States Constitution. We, in regards to health care, do not up stand our United States Supreme Court findings, Roe vs. Wade. How did we ever get so far off track that we do not respect our United States great Documents ? I urge you bring a screeching halt, an executive order, to this grievous action of our United States Congress once and for all. Sincere Regards Roland D. Menard III http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992174 You had to get the last word, with one last jab eh? I am sorry but to insinuate that anyone who has committed to the NH way of life is somehow a 'separatist' is to misrepresent this movement to those who don't know what it's about. And to turn the words 'fighting for freedom' into a physical effort is also disingenuous and false. The people in this movement follow always the NAP. Your idea of tolerance and cooperation (redistribution of the wealth) we don't approve of..as is our right. The movement is already working for those who are interested. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992065 IWFFFreedom, Thanks for an interesting exchange. I'll end on this one then: Its my read of our world history as well as of my own personal experience (living in different cultures for years at a time all round this planet for past two decades) that authentic personal and collective freedom (far more primary and causal than mere political freedom) requires so much more than a willingness (eagerness?) for this "fighting" you aggrandize in your nic here. Any future worth living will require a lot more tolerance and cooperation than propagation of further over-simplifications, the voicing of new versions of the same old and self-defeating us-vs-them type separatist ideas and goals. Anyway/Either way: what is true will be ultimately sustained and what is false will fall away....its just the journey -the time in between- that's the drama. Our "debate"/differences aside, may the most true, wise, and beautiful ideas will (soon) and until then... Best to you/yours. - - - Tim, Thanks for supporting/allowing, no small, digression/exploration of ideas here. I appreciate that the goal of this thread is not primarily the voicing of differences of opinion but the uniting of efforts towards your ends, so thanks for having allowed IWFFF and I the chance to see what value there might have been in a couple bank-n-forths. Best of luck in fulfilling those aspects of this endeavor which themselves genuinely serve the wellness of our planet and all life here. ~AF http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992025 OK people, enough philosophical debate. Please keep comments here directly relevant to the pledge. One final comment in this thread will be allowed, but only to invite all those interested in continuing the debate to a more suitable forum. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2992005 You said: "The kind of "freedom" you will "...fight for", history has proven well, is no freedom at all unless you view the last couple thousand years -of similar "freedom fighting" and this "success" and "health" you speak of- as having produced anything more than a greed machine rewarding the least of us at the expense of the rest of us." I'm sorry but FSP is not based on Marxism.. but on taking care of oneself and one's family first. If everyone did that we'd all be better off. You went on to say: "If this significant other, your ontological "doppleganger" Leo, whoever he is, is listening, he really owes me one for calling you out only to find that the FightForFreedom is EmptyOfViableSolutions or is it NoTolleranceForTheVarietyUponWhichAllSustainableLifeIsBased?" Your statement is again unintelligible. Solution for what? My solution is my choice. Why do you try to force people into YOUR 'solution'? "Good luck killing and consuming your way to your NH survivalist, separatist, inbreeding, Revelations extopia "bro"." No one said anything about being a 'separatist', just an individualist which is a right that everyone has, guaranteed by God and the Constitution. And certainly no one said anything about KILLING! Methinks you have a twisted paranoia of the courageous pioneers who value self-reliance. I am not sure how you worked 'killing' into that mix... whew! "PS: Sorry for trolling this forum for healthy debate, its unfair to play with minds so dead and ideas so spent." Sorry for responding to this troll... he's got quite a fertile imagination. He has us all "killing" now... and our ideas are dead and spent because they are not his ideas that he would wish to FORCE upon us, collectively. SHAMEFUL. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991976 The kind of "freedom" you will "...fight for", history has proven well, is no freedom at all unless you view the last couple thousand years -of similar "freedom fighting"and this "success" and "health" you speak of- as having produced anything more than a greed machine rewarding the least of us at the expense of the rest of us. If this significant other, your ontological "doppleganger" Leo, whoever he is, is listening, he really owes me one for calling you out only to find that the FightForFreedom is EmptyOfViableSolutions or is it NoTolleranceForTheVarietyUponWhichAllSustainableLifeIsBased? Good luck killing and consuming your way to your NH survivalist, separatist, inbreeding, Revelations extopia "bro". PS: Sorry for trolling this forum for healthy debate, its unfair to play with minds so dead and ideas so spent. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991839 Continued from above... #6 is more unintelligible nonsense that does not deserve a response. I don't know who 'Rush Limbaugh' is? Some guru of yours? I don't think I need hand dispensing with the likes of mini-totalitarians like yourself. I think everyone here is amused at your blatant lack of respect for freedom and contempt for success. Potential FSPers, Leo is a perfect example of the cancerous thought that has grown a tentacle in NH thanks to billions in outside money from dirty nazi sympathizers like George Soros. Please come help us eradicate it out won't you? You are needed here badly. Come soon! http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991838 Poster 'Already Free' seems unfortunately to suffering from the affliction of excessive verbosity resulting in the spewage of so much liberal psycho-babble. I think they call it Aspergers Syndrome. So I will answer his statements one more time, insofar as they are decipherable. Dear Leo, Regarding 'co-organizing viable human society and a sustainable human future' -- IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO CO-ORGANIZE ME OR MY FUTURE. Go mind your own f'ing business. Thanks. I do not care to hear you 'site' (sic) your sources about compatibility with democracy. We are a republic that is based on capitalism not Marxism. Democracy sucks. Your comment which contained the reference to FOX (why I don't know, no one else referred to FOX? I am not quite sure what FOX has to do with the FSP coming to NH to preserve it as a freedom loving place to live) was indecipherable and made no sense and will be ignored. I guess my success at supporting myself was criminal because I didn't have to rely on your organized centralized nanny state? Whew. Criminal... absolutely outrageous! I must have hurt a lot of critters while managing to feed myself eh? MQ is considered an authority and is cited by the state itself. You on the other hand are a nobody. I understand perfectly the agenda and goals of the evil UN, as I am so close to this 'encampment' that I am here NOW. Firmly encamped. LOL As for hate crimes, you are walking hate crime because you hate anything that doesn't want to be counted, categorized, and taxed and owned by some central authority. Are you sure your name is not Leo Sandy? He's another nutjob that is ruining the minds of young people in this state! The answer to any problems we have in this state or country is not centralizing under your one-world wet dream communist utopian society. People who seek freedom, and the right to earn a living without gov't interference respect me, and not you. Suck it up. More... http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991739 (cont'd from above) 6. Whole-systems: - you say: "each person is a whole system....go play in traffic". - I ask: just the "whole system" that is each person is best addressed by a whole-systems approach to personal health, so too the collective systems (municipal, national, international) by which groups of people co-manage their living and commons is best addressed by whole-systems thinking. When just such thinking is what makes your car breaks, your computer's cpu, your telecom's ISP, and your Rush Limbaugh night-light all function with maximum dependability, why not then welcome that same effective examination of your NH-ho plan for a quick double-check of its actual viability? Well??? Meta-Note: If there are any others here with any capacity (or sufficient pity) to lend the lessor among you -currently at the microphone- a (mental) hand, this would not be a bad moment to come to his (and this cause's) aid. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991738 (...cont'd from above) UNspeak is an UNword, but it must feel comforting to have an easy cop-out term for categorically dismissing lines of conversation or confrontation of concepts you don't understand, but (and here's the splinter in sign's slogan) at what cost to the actual complexities you'll actually have to address should you get anywhere near this Libertarian -NH Encampment- (wet?)dream of yours. 4. Hate Crimes: - You say: "one-world, ...maoistis,...hate-crimes" - I ask: Is it not a single planet we live on? Is humanity, even if only as a biological expression, not a single species far more same in its core needs than inherently different? Do we not all share in the outcomes of either wise planning and sustainable principles, charters of rights, agreements on honoring the commons? Spare your cause and community members the embarrassment of any further mental laziness and just leave Mao (and Hitler) out of your reductionist over-simplifications and simply address the issue or topic at hand, eh? Is anyone else here as blind as this guy to record setting hate-crimes done, planet-wide, done in the name of capitalism (and monotheistic religions like christianity, while we're at it)? 5. Surviving this difficult moment in collective evolution: - You ask: "what if i told you to shut up and go else where?" - I answer: "are you the sharpest tool in this NH-Plan's shed?" Would any of the brighter bulbs here in this house of cards assist in redeeming your side of this conversation? If raising the question of how your NH-Plan addresses, to any credible degree, any of the real causes of our country's (or planet's) critical challenges, is seen as "causing trouble" then what a sad lot (not just spokesperson) you have here. 6. (...tbc in following post) http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991736 To the degree that you (IWFFFreedom) are representative of the mentality of those valuing this NH plan and at the risk of mistaking your non-answers for a lack of intellectual capacity to answer or consider (or all out strategy to avoid) the complexities and contradictions inherent in any realistic discussion/planning about co-organizing viable human society and a sustainable human future (even if only your guys' own future in this transformed NH of yours), here then one last chance to show if there is any wisdom or depth to this Libertarian wet-dream. 1. Captalism: -You say: "Im sorry..." - I ask: Dont apologize just summarize the rational justifications you can observe and briefly recount for the conclusion that capitalism is the friend of democracy. I would be happy to site my considered sources for making the case that exactly the opposite is the case. 2. Successful: - You say: "If someone is successful...its not at someone elses expense". - My question: But I'm sure you'd acknowledge (if only armed with Fox "News" statistics and targets) that so often profits, the other name for this capitalistic "success" you praise, are in fact criminally secured at the expense of competition (how ironic), the masses (how unjust and undemocratic), and the planet (how short-sighted and self-destructive), eh? 3. Healthiest: - You say: a) "by the Morgan Quitno Press" and b)"....leave off UNspeak". - I respond: a) The MQ Press rankings, even if they didn't suffer from inherent methodology and data sourcing problems so problematic as to skew their entire "findings" into meaninlessness, are almost exclusively about crime and not a complex and credible assessment of the human health of a region. b) (......tbc in next post) http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991682 AlreadyFree posted this socialist nonsense: "1. "wealthiest" - by what measure and at whose expense?" I am sorry but the FSP encourages CAPITALISM. If you don't agree then you likely would not fit in. If someone is successful we do not play the blame game -- it is not at 'someone else's expense'. We hope everyone is successful in their capitalistic endeavors. "2. "healthiest" - again by what measure and at whose expense? ...to what degree natural, sustainable, and holistic?" Healthiest is according to the latest ranking by Morgan Quitno Press. You can leave off all that other UN-speak thank you. It doesn't apply so therefore I will not address it. "Just because there are dangers in centralizing power at this point in human evolution --when most people (voters and elected alike) are largely unconscious, neo-natal, egos-- that does not mean that there are not obvious advantages, necessities even, in the qualified and controlled concentration of knowledge, powers of action, and integration of local, national and international relations." I suggest that you one-world Mao-ists and murder-worshipper retreat into a cave before you are arrested for hate crimes... "What if the key to navigating this current evolutionary bottle-neck was to refine how we cooperate rather than regress into survivalist same-old-same-old?" What if I told you to shut up and go cause trouble somewhere else...? "Where's the whole-systems viability assessment of this "my country - my gun, NH HO!" battle cry?" Whole systems? Each individual is his or her own 'whole system'. Now go play in the traffic... http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991641 Dear IWFFFreedom, Your response didn't at all address the focus of my, sure a bit tongue-in-cheek, reference to "ideological" inbreeding. But your reply was telling enough: 1. "wealthiest" - by what measure and at whose expense?, ...to the degree as a measurement of income per capita, then "wealth" earned adding what net/real value to planet and other? 2. "healthiest" - again by what measure and at whose expense? ...to what degree natural, sustainable, and holistic? Just because there are dangers in centralizing power at this point in human evolution --when most people (voters and elected alike) are largely unconscious, neo-natal, egos-- that does not mean that there are not obvious advantages, necessities even, in the qualified and controlled concentration of knowledge, powers of action, and integration of local, national and international relations. What if the key to navigating this current evolutionary bottle-neck was to refine how we cooperate rather than regress into survivalist same-old-same-old? Where's the whole-systems viability assessment of this "my country - my gun, NH HO!" battle cry? http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991538 I think AlreadyFree should have his comment banned for stating that somehow, moving to NH would give him an opportunity to study inbreeding: "On the other hand, it would be nice to have some state other than Texas to study when examining the long term effects of ideological (only?) inbreeding." NH is one of the wealthiest, healthiest states in the nation. It used to be the most free, but that is being lost along with all the other states. Our Ideology is the government that we established here in 1776 - it's the Constitution and Bill of Rights stupid, NOT the United Nations and their managed society of the one world government. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991483 You can go to freestateproject.org or jeffersonforum.net to look for economic opportunities. We're talking about using the latter site to organize some kind of freedom oriented IT/tech firm, while the former frequently sees jobs and contractor positions posted for those looking for something right away. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991431 To the person who said: "To the degree that we clearly, in fact, share one world (share the same air, water, temperature, ...biosphere, not to mention all the other non-geocentric commonality) there will be the need to have some world-level representative governance; same goes then for national, regional, state-level, and local." You are wrong. This is one-world totalitarianism and while our nasty president is working for his elite masters toward this goal, we will fight it to the death here in beautiful NH. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2991037 I've been thinking of moving out for a little over a year now. I'm unemployed so I have no job to hold me back, but the trouble is what jobs are available up in NH? Since I have no job, I have no money to cover moving expenses, housing etc. This is the major hurdle that is keeping me back. http://www.pledgebank.com/Next1000#comment_2990936 Octoberfest '09 was awesome. All involved had a great time. The chili and chowda offerings were great, and folks got a chance to meet some of the locals and check out the seacoast right when the leaves have started changing. The Counter continues to move up to 770 movers, while there are now 1500 Friends of the FSP! Come join us in the free state as we work to roll back intrusive state government!